Big Band with Orchestra?

[saxhound]

A big band leader that I know is thinking about putting together a show with a local symphony orchestra. In addition to each group playing alone, he would like to finish up with both groups playing together. Does anyone know of any sources for charts for a combined group like this?

He's not really looking for avant garde type of stuff - more along the lines of traditional big band fare (Miller, Dorsey, Goodman, Basie, perhaps some Nelson Riddle, since we have multiple female vocalists). I am halfway competent as a big band arranger, but don't have the first clue how to arrange for an orchestra.

 

[Carl H.]

Good charts must be out there somewhere, but most of the ones I've played had the band parts scored for the traditional symphony wind section.

I played a fund raiser for an opera company some years ago in which there were sax parts for the early 20th cent. operettas, but the big band ballads had no sax parts. Talk about frustrating, playing Basie on violin with the sax on its stand because there is no sax part in the arrangement. You expect to play the violin on Rossini, but !!!

 

[Merlin]

A big band leader that I know is thinking about putting together a show with a local symphony orchestra. In addition to each group playing alone, he would like to finish up with both groups playing together. Does anyone know of any sources for charts for a combined group like this?

He's not really looking for avant garde type of stuff - more along the lines of traditional big band fare (Miller, Dorsey, Goodman, Basie, perhaps some Nelson Riddle, since we have multiple female vocalists). I am halfway competent as a big band arranger, but don't have the first clue how to arrange for an orchestra.

The Miller Army Air Force band recorded with strings. I've seen the actual pencil charts too. Getting them for this type of use may be difficult, however.

 

[Carl H.]

The Miller Army Air Force band recorded with strings. I've seen the actual pencil charts too. Getting them for this type of use may be difficult, however.

Those still leave the winds, brass, and percussion out.

 

[SOTSDO]

I was part of one of these marriages way back in the 1960's. At that concert (Mississippi River Festival), the Saint Louis Symphony was teamed up with a local group with which I was subbing.

All of the joint stuff that we played was in the form of handwritten (ink) charts. As I recalled it, very little of the joint stuff was worth the time of day, and the crowd reacted accordingly.

The charts apparently belonged to the guy doing the arranging, as he came around and rounded them up post performance. No idea as to who he was, though.

 

[Al Stevens]

Based on your post it sounds like you need one, maybe two arrangements. Pick a likely couple of charts from your big band library. Score the orchestral parts as sustained accompaniment tones behind the big band. They can come in after the intro and fade out with the ending. (The band is going to dominate any such arrangement anyway.) Lots of tied whole notes playing three- and four-note chords. Ought to be easy enough. Assuming you have time to do it.

 

[Gandalfe]

Yup, someone has to arrange the charts me thinks. It's a lot of work too.

 

[Carl H.]

Based on your post it sounds like you need one, maybe two arrangements. Pick a likely couple of charts from your big band library. Score the orchestral parts as sustained accompaniment tones behind the big band. They can come in after the intro and fade out with the ending. (The band is going to dominate any such arrangement anyway.) Lots of tied whole notes playing three- and four-note chords. Ought to be easy enough. Assuming you have time to do it.

And the Orchestra will hate every second of it and never agree to such a performance again. BTDT!

By the way, a full symphony is much louder than a big band.


Dizzy did a number of charts for his combo and full symphony, check out his symphony sessions. There are more charts than were used on the recording. I don't recall who did them but they were quite good. Those are the closest I have ever come to what you are looking for. If you could get some of those charts and flesh out the combo scoring you might have a winner. Night in Tunisia was pretty effective and might work quite well. If you could assemble the whole Afro-cuban Suite for big band and Symphony orchestra you might have something marketable.

 

[pete]

Question: will you have a singer with the group or all instrumental?

Y'know, you could easily make the argument that Rhapsody in Blue or something similar would be kewlish. Bolero has sax ....

 

[Al Stevens]

And the Orchestra will hate every second of it and never agree to such a performance again. BTDT!

Oh. In that case, don't bother. Wouldn't want to ruffle any prima donna feathers merely for the sake of convenience or to actually entertain folks.

 

[Carl H.]

I think the idea is to merge 2 complete groups, not to add saxes or strings to the other.

 

[Carl H.]

Oh. In that case, don't bother. Wouldn't want to ruffle any prima donna feathers merely for the sake of convenience or to actually entertain folks.

I've done enough of those gigs, for the money. America's funniest Videos is also entertaining, but I don't volunteer to get hit in the crotch either. Working as a musician, you do what it takes to pay the bills, but why settle for that and have that stuff associated with your name?

 

[Al Stevens]

I think the idea is to merge 2 complete groups, not to add saxes or strings to the other.

Could be. I don't draw that conclusion from the original post. I read it to mean he wants a quick way to get something like In The Mood with strings so everybody could be on stage at once for a grand finale.

 

[Carl H.]

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-symphonic-ellington-night-creature

Duke Ellington did not write for symphony orchestras very often in his career, but when he did, the results were generally memorable. Two of his main works, the six-part "Night Creature" and the four-part "The Three Black Kings," plus an adaptation of the three-part "New World a-Comin'" are interpreted in Italy by the Civica Jazz Band (a big band) and the Ensemble dell'Orchestra Sinfonica di Milano Giuseppe Verdi

They might be willing to share.

 

[Carl H.]

http://www.goodwinmusics.com/recording.html

Orchestra

Many "pops charts" are available, including often-requested selections like "Amazing Grace" and "2001 Fanfare" (first movement of Strauss' Thus Spake Zarathustra), plus dozens of titles featuring soloists, jazz combo, or big band with orchestra.

 

[Al Stevens]

America's funniest Videos is also entertaining...

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I'll defer, however, to the judgement of those who have managed to make it through an entire episode.

I've done lots of disagreeable things in gigs over the past half century because it was on the program. I let others make those decisions when it isn't my gig. As long as they decide to pay me.

Try sitting in a ghost big band on the upper deck of a cruise ship in a 40 knot wind while it's raining because the cruise director thought it would be a cool thing to do.

Try playing a piano on which all the black keys have been knocked off the keyboard level with the white keys.

Try marching down Main Street in purple tights.

Get me started...

 

[Carl H.]

I agree, anybody who goes into music thinking it is all lights and ovations is a fool. It is a job just like any other. I've missed many wonderful things in my life because I was working nights and weekends or had committed to a gig.

If I had it to do over again I doubt I'd choose to do music. My wife does not believe me when I tell her. sigh....


I have never marched, well with an instrument anyway, but I have been a strolling violinist. I always quote an extremely outrageous rate when asked to do it. Every once in a while I still got hired.

 

[saxhound]

Thanks - lots of good comments and discussion here. As far as intentions go, the idea is to cross market the two groups in order to put "butts in seats", and potentially expand the audience pool for both groups. I don't know exactly what the format would be, but it sounds like the symphony would play a few selections, the big band would play a few selections, and the concert would wrap up with a combined performance. As I said in my OP, the big band tends to focus on very recognizable big band classics, with an excellent female vocal trio. We have a number of custom arrangements to feature them, and we don't stray too far from the "instant recognition" formula. While the Ellington & Dizzy stuff would be fun, and the band has the chops to play them, I'm not sure that's what we want. The Miller charts would be interesting if we could find them. I'm also thinking the Nelson Riddle charts he did with Linda Ronstadt could have potential, or even some of the older Harry James stuff that had strings. I have played (and arranged) a few of these, but always with the string parts re-written for the traditional 17 piece band.

If anything, you have confirmed what I found (or didn't) with hours of creative search engine activity. I did have a thought - I'm a member of the Sibelius forum, and there are a lot of orchestral arrangers there. I'll throw up a post and see what I can find. I may be able to take an existing arrangement and send it to someone for enhancement.