Couesnon clarinet overhaul

Hello Forum members:

I have a Couesnon clarinet I am currently overhauling.

I noticed the left hand pinkie keys are pin in hole types.

Can someone please educate me about the material used for this connection.

Can the new material be purchased or should I try to salvage ( if possible ) the existing material.

Thank you

Rick
 
The pin in hole type is used in a variety of clarinets even those made today. They allow for the long keys to move with the lower keys.

What we see in your pictures is one's attempt of silencing noise simply because the metal pin inside a metal hole wears over time and then starts making some nice noises not conducive to nice and quiet playing.

What you see on your clarinet is just some material put over that pin to try and silence the noise activity. It could be bladder material but it actually just looks like some form of fabric.

nothing really to concern yourself about ... yet

What you will need to do though is after you overhaul it you will need to inspect the "connection" between the keys and the lifters. and if it makes too much noise for you then you will have to find a material (like the old pads skin material) to put over those pins to silence the noise.

NOTE: they put a ton of material between the two pieces and NOT on the pin itself which is the actual problem area.

There are a multitude of other solutions for this such as liquid teflon dip for the pin, liquid nylon dip, teflon sheets carefully shaped for the hole, silk, replacing hte metal pin with a plastic one, etc.
 
for this kind of linkage I use the skin from a pad; I wet the skin, then put a tiny drop of white glue (PVA) on it, the fold the skin in half, press the thing between thumb and index finger, remove excess glue, and, while still wet and soft, place that half over the hole in the cross lever, then carefully push the touchpiece with its pin into the hole, thus squashing and jamming the half skin between. After it has dried (overnight) I remove the lever, cut excess skin and put a tiny dab of cork grease on the remaining, uhm, condom.

Service life of such a part is at least 3..5 years (haven't got older samples). No special tools or materials required.

(Don't be tempted to use eg rubber skin from a party balloon. It won't work. It'll transform to goo within a couple of weeks. Folded pad skin works best)
 
Ahh... Thanks you both for your input. It is clear now.

I'm attaching additional photos of the clarinet as requested.
 
As for other markings . Made in France is stamped on lower section above thumb rest.

I will look for other markings as I dis-assemble the keys.

I hope to learn more about this clarinet and possibly an indication about when it was made.

Thanks again for your help.

Rick
 
I agree with the others, though sometimes do it a bit differently (just my preferance, it achieves the same goal really).

For slightly loose pins I use pad bladder. I actually use a bladder sheet but it's exactly the same thing. I use a bit of contact glue to glue the bladder to the end of the pin. Just makes it a bit more secure than simply putting it there, though the latter would work too. If more than one layer is needed I use a bigger bladder piece and fold it, gluing the layers with a tiny drop of contact glue. I think this makes it even stronger. I found that for its thickness, bladder is extremely strong and resists tearing.

If even more is needed then I use an even stronger (but slightly thicker) material, from the sails of sail boats. I have no idea where to get it, but someone sent me some some that he got from picking up left overs from the floor near a sail boat factory.

I first fit it "dry" and check. When right, I remove any excess and add grease. I only do it this way because I don't want to put grease before, finding out another layer is needed, then have to clean the grease to glue another layer. You can simply add another layer without gluing it, but as I said I think the glue makes is a bit more secure. I like the contact glue so there's no waiting overnight or at all really, so I can do this repair for someone while they are waiting just a few minutes.

I hope this helps.
 
Nice looking clarinet !! I have a Couesnon too and it's a wonderful clarinet.
I do have some Couesnon information found here
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnCouesnon.htm
but not much history


I should also mention that I also use contact cement when I create a silencing solution. I mostly use teflon shaped cups that go into the pin hole. If it's too thick (tight, action becomes sluggish) I can sand the cup more open by hand with a miniature diamond drill/sander.

But bladder material is really good and readily available from any tech or anyone doing a general repad .. just take the skin off of one of the older replaced larger pads (or a new one)

the main objective is eliminating the noise and up/down wiggle of the left hand pinky long key without affecting the key response (if too much material it will become sluggish). Good luck.
 
but not much history

Get ready for information overload!

The company still exists, but very different from the manufacturer it used to be - http://www.pgm-couesnon.com/historique.html

And now the bit you can ignore if you like. I wish I could attribute it to the sources I found it from, but haven't kept, and so can't give the references.

Apologies for the lumpy reading feel suggesting that copy and pasting has gone in - because it has:

1845
Pierre Louis Gautrot (Mirecourt 1882) became proprietor of GUICHARD. He had been already working for Guichard as his associate beginning in 1835. Gautrot was involved in the 1845 litigation against Adolphe Sax.

1846
The company of over 200 employees claimed to be the most important manufacturer of musical instruments in Europe.

1847
The firm employed 208 workers (over 40% of the brass instrument workforce in Paris). In the same year the company patented improvements to the horn, trumpet, and brass valves.

1849
He was the first European manufacturer to use mass production techniques for instruments. Gautrot took advantage of the industrial revolution and added steam power to his plant.

1850
He had depots in London and by 1856 also in Madrid, Naples, and New York.

1855
Gautrot had a plant in Château-Thierry as well, employed over 300 workers in Paris, and was producing 20,000 band and stringed instruments annually. The company had a band consisting of thirty-six workers in 1857 (many companies had such bands in the 19th century) by then had a workshop producing string instruments in Mirecourt and one producing woodwind instruments in La Couture Boussey.

1860
Producing extremely desirable instruments, the company exported 70% of its instruments in 1860.

1862
Gautrot was employing 700 workers and by 1867, four plants were producing approximately 47,000 musical instruments a year (24,000 of them valved brass instruments)!

1864
The company patented the "système equitonique" (compensating valve system) in France and a year later in England. It used valves with dual windways to act as a compensating system for intonation. After litigation involving Adolphe Sax from 1856 to 1859 for alleged violation of Sax’s patents, Gautrot was ordered to pay 500,000 francs in damages, and also ordered to mark his instruments with Sax’ name. Gautrot ignored the order and Sax appealed his case in the courts until 1867. The final outcome was not specified.

1870
The company employed over 600 workers in Paris and Château-Thierry.

1881
Gautrot bought Triebert

Amédée August COUESNON became the director of the firm and owner in 1883. Among the many expositions at which Gautrot was represented were the Paris Expositions in 1844, 1845, 1849, 1855, 1863, 1867, 1878, Toulouse in 1845, and London in 1851, 1855, 1862, and 1882. Early in the 19th century, great changes in the method of manufacturing musical instruments took place in France. Several concepts of the Industrial Revolution (which had its roots in England) were incorporated into the manufacturing process. One major change took brass instrument manufacture out of the atelier into the factory, thus allowing for mass production and lower prices. Gautrot was one of the principals using this new-found technique.

Under the personal direction of Amedee Couesnon for 48 years, the company won many medals and awards for quality production and technical innovation.

1911
Couesnon had expanded to eleven factories and more than 1000 workers, meeting the needs of many performing groups and military bands. During this time the products were highly sought after and were played by many of the virtuosos at the time. Although they made virtually any musical instrument, during the 1930s they began catering to "Fanfare bands" (marching brass bands very popular at the time), and gradually became almost the only supplier of marching brass instruments in France. At this same time, prior to the war, the Couesnon trumpet factory in Paris was located right next door to the F. Besson trumpet factory, where the premiere trumpets prior to World War II were made. Curiously, the Couesnon trumpets of the time look virtually identical to the F. Besson models.

1945
At the end of World War II, the music business started to change, but Couesnon continued to deal primarily with the special needs and instruments of brass and military bands. The C/Bb trumpet market became dominated by Selmer, Courtois, LeBlanc in France and even the larger American manufacturers. The public continued to associate Couesnon with the brass band; not the orchestral or jazz band. Starting in the 60 's and during the next 20 years, Couesnon tried to expand its share in markets other than fanfare bands. They made a line called "Monopole Conservatoire" higher quality instruments, trying to gain more customers in conservatory (music students). For example, they employed Mr Bernard Soustrot (first prize in the 1976 Maurice André Competition in Paris) to try all the piccolos trumpets made in the workshop and to give his "blessing" to these new instruments. Unfortunately, these efforts proved ultimately ineffective, and their traditional market continued to decrease in popularity to the point that brass bands have almost all disappeared in France. According to Richard Dundas, sixty percent of the production was exported throughout the world with as much thirty percent sold in the United States. However, as sales declined, the profits dwindled and the losses mounted. Factories were sold off and in 1969 the main factory in Château Thierry was badly damaged by fire, destroying the archives. In 1978, the contract with Gretch to import Couesnon instruments to the United States was terminated and new Couesnon instruments have been very rare in the US since that time.

Guichard - as predecessor.
Auguste G.Guichard founded a musical instrument manufacturing company bearing his name in 1827. He also established a factory at Château-Thierry (Aisne), thus moving from a "cottage" to a "factory" industry devoted to the manufacture of brass musical instruments. Pierre-Louis Gautrot joined the firm in 1835. In 1845, the name of the company was changed from Guichard to Gautrot indicating at least a change in management. At the time of change of name, the two artisans were brothers-in-law.

Gautrot - as maker-inventor.
The company names of Gautrot were altered several times during his 39 years as an entrepeneur-maker-inventor allowing for various degrees of influence. Evidently he could work alone or in "tandem." One early invention (1847) by Gautrot involved what was called an "omnitonic" horn which added 12 crooks and quickchange valves to the natural horn. This idea was consolidated into a 3-valve "omnitonic" (1854), and further developed into what may be called a predecessor of the modern double horn (1858). In 1855, the company added woodwind and string instruments to its line of products.

The sarrusophone dates from 1856 when it was patented as a double-reed instrument, though it existed earlier. A mouthpiece with a single beating reed for this instrument was patented by Sax in 1866! Gautrot absorbed or became allied with several other musical instrument makers as time passed. He added Tulou flutes in 1857. Jean-Louis Tulou (1786-1865) was not only a flute-maker, but served as a professor of flute at the Conservatoire in Paris (1829-1856) and was in all probability the last well-known flutist to be against the Boehm flute. The company name became Gautrot aine et cie. in 1870. Though I cannot pinpoint when "et cie. " was not part of the company name, several references do exist. Also, Gautrot Marquet (ca. 1863) and Gautrot, durand et cie. (ca. 1878) were two affiliations noted in passing. During the existence of Gautrot aîne et a cie (1870-1883), one purchase was made which amazed me. Frédéric Triébert Fils (1813-1878) died and left his company, including a factory in Paris, to Mme. C. Dehais who immediately sold it to Felix Paris who later sold it to Gautrot (1881). This is the Triébert company where François Lorée worked / supervised before starting his own (extant) company.

In 1883, Gautrot added the name of Couesnon to his company name, making it Couesnon, Gautrot et cie. Amédée Couesnon was Gautrot's son-in law at the time. Couesnon had an extremely long life, being born in 1850, and dying in 1951.

Couesnon - as successor.
The name of Gautrot was deleted from the company name in 1888, thereby ending the influence of Gautrot. The changes in Couesnon et cie. until its demise well into the, twentieth century (1967) are beyond the scope of this study. Adolphe Sax, born Antoine-Joseph, produced the first saxophone in about 1843: a C bass in the shape of an ophicleide. These "prototype" saxophones made in this curved style are vanishingly rare (there may be only four left, worldwide). The soprano, alto and tenor were traditionally shaped and were produced slightly later.
 
Steve, once you post it (giving Chris creds of course), pass me the URL so that I can point to it from my blog. Or maybe, you can pen a couple of paragraphs about your site/research that I can post on my blog like Terry has done for me on a number of occasions. :cool:
 
Steve, once you post it (giving Chris creds of course), pass me the URL so that I can point to it from my blog. Or maybe, you can pen a couple of paragraphs about your site/research that I can post on my blog like Terry has done for me on a number of occasions. :cool:

there, i just cut and paste it. i'll make it look pretty later
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnCouesnon.htm
 
I wish I could attribute it to the sources I found it from, but haven't kept, and so can't give the references.

Now this is funny.

I have trawled around, and found where this information was lifted from.

It was from a very old Ebay ad, that itself was lifted and recorded for prosperity as a link from a website that has since changed ownership

called..........

drum roll..........

www.saxpics.com (new version)
http://www.saxpics.com/Couesnon/index.htm (Pete's version with link at bottom)
http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Couesnon/misc/History.htm (the link!)

Sorry Pete!

Chris
 
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