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Double-Lip Embouchure

Discussion in 'Advanced Techniques' started by Roger Aldridge, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Roger Aldridge

    Roger Aldridge Composer in Residence Distinguished Member

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    This topic may stir up some trouble! ha ha ha

    I'm curious if others on the forum currently use or have tried a double-lip embouchure.

    This article inspired me to try a double-lip first on bass clarinet. I was so impressed with the results (more vibrant sound and greater projection) that I then tried it on tenor saxophone with equally good results. Finally, I switched to a double-lip on clarinet.

    http://www.theclarinet.co.uk/articles/doublelip.shtml

    Roger
     
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  2. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

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    Sometimes I feel like a frog playing a saxophone
    Roger,

    Of course I Have !!

    I can play 3 basic embouchures: Symphonic (the tight one :emoji_astonished: ), doublers ( the loose one :D ) and the double-lip (the fun one :eek: ).

    The key to any of them is to take in a proper amount of mouthpiece from the get-go to maximize your sound production and expressionability.

    I mostly play the more symphonic tight type embouchure. But from time to time will do the doublelip while practicing. I enjoy it, though it feels as if it shakes my brains a bit more .. maybe extra resonance ??

    I haven't really recorded myself of the doublelip and compared it to the symphonic for tonal differences for me ... just some basic observances of the two being quite similar tonally. Of course it will vary from person to person .. and maybe my technique for it isn't 100%
     
  3. eddierich

    eddierich

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    Hey guys,
    Back in college, my clarinet teacher, Caroline Hartig, recommended warming up using a double-lip embouchure. I still do it from time to time now, but I don't really notice much of a difference in sound between double-lip and my regular clarinet embouchure, just a different feel like Steve mentioned.
     
  4. Gandalfe

    Gandalfe Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Welcome Eddie! Why do you think it was recommended? Did you gain anything in the way of control from the use of the double-lip embouchure? I'm just curious.
     
  5. eddierich

    eddierich

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    Hi Gandalfe and all,
    The exercise Dr. Hartig gave me went as follows:
    You must do this sitting down. You allow the bell of the clarinet to rest on or between your knees (which ever is more comfortable) so you don't have to use your embouchure muscles to support the instrument. Both lips act as cushions and it helps you to avoid biting. Once in the proper position, the exercise was similar to the Moyse long tones in De La Sonorite. Start on F2 and slur to E2 and repeat. Then E2 to Eb1, repeat, and so on until you get to E1.
    I think the point of the warm-up is to equally engage all of the embouchure muscles, top and bottom.

    I think doing this exercise with a single-lip embouchure would be beneficial to feel the difference between biting with the lower lip/jaw and using the bottom lip as a cushion.
     
  6. PrincessJ

    PrincessJ

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    As a part of my daily practice routine I so a very similar exercise to the one described above. Normally, I play with a single lip embouchure, but I have experimented with and still occasionally use the double lip.
    I used it exclusively for about a month, and migrated back.
    I love my tone with the double lip, I find that I have no choice other than to use a little softer reeds, or I start to sound a little "stuffy".
    It's a nice change though, I used it a lot when I was first learning (believe it or not) and that's really helped me with any biting problems. I've never had biting issues at all actually, I recommend dappling with it for anyone who does. It's a great way to strengthen embouchure muscles and gain control over your tone.
     
  7. jbtsax

    jbtsax Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

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    I have never seriously tried the double lip embouchure. I don't like to work that hard. :) My question for Roger is, do you think you could achieve the same results with a the top teeth resting on the mouthpiece if the jaw is opened more and the bottom lip does not press so hard against the reed? In other words could someone get the same more vibrant sound and greater projection with a modified single lip embouchure?
     
  8. davetrow

    davetrow

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    Double lip

    I learned clarinet double lip and have never played any other way. I've tried single lip from time to time, but the vibration of the mouthpiece on my upper teeth is very close to chalk-on-blackboard for me, even with a fairly thick pad. As well, I have a tendency to bite, which double-lip keeps better under control.

    BTW, what has made the biggest difference for me on embouchure is the Kooiman Maestro thumbrest, which finally made my right thumb a full partner.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

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    Sometimes I feel like a frog playing a saxophone
    i should have added that years ago i think the double lip embouchure helped me improve my single embouchure. I now make sure that the mpc is up against my top teeth thus allowing the lower lip to create "no pressure" to keep the mpc up, and is there for the reed.

    In students that is what I find, that the lower jaw actually pushes up, or keeps the mpc up in the mouth, thus added pressure against the reed. Thus I always drive the thumb as the force to keep the mpc up against the top teeth, or "in place" for a double embouchure.

    The clarinet embouchure it is best for the lower lip to go towards/out (not up) to meet the reed - dependent of other stuff too.
     
  10. Jacques5646

    Jacques5646

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    ... as I learned tenor, than bari, double lip and have never played any other way... and I do think my sound come now close to what I'm striving for.

    Double lip is supposed to help relaxing the various muscles which play their role in sound production. I confirm I'm tending to use reeds a notch less stiff than "regular" friends with comparable mpcs (rather open: .120 on bari and .100 on tenor) and sound. I'm however not an altissimo star and this might be kinda drawback from using the method.
     
  11. WoodwindDoubler

    WoodwindDoubler

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    I used this method for a long time on tenor, which was key in relaxing both my inner and outer embouchure. However with experimentation I found I preferred the teeth on top, loose bottom lip, open throat approach.

    Never tried this on clarinet, probably never will.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

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    Sometimes I feel like a frog playing a saxophone
    I used this method on soprano, alto and tenor sax and clarinet. But as mentioned, it helped me create a better single lip embouchure making sure the mpc is pushing up against the top teeth, and thus the lower lip having less pressure.

    This is what my private teacher was trying to teach me 29 years ago !!
     
  13. jbtsax

    jbtsax Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

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    Can anyone name some of the professional (symphony?) players you use the double lip embouchure exclusively on clarinet?

    How about classical saxophonists?

    How about professional oboists or bassonists who use a single lip? (just kidding)
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

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    Sometimes I feel like a frog playing a saxophone
    on my oboe i play with the reed on top !! :)
     
  15. pete

    pete Brassica Oleracea Staff Member Administrator

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    We could then ask if that improves their intonation ....

    /me: ducks and runs
     
  16. jbtsax

    jbtsax Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

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    I've heard that their tone sucks, but their embouchure doesn't get nearly as tired. ;)

    Does this mean that playing the crumhorn requires a "no lip" embouchure?
     
  17. pete

    pete Brassica Oleracea Staff Member Administrator

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    jbt, you're making too much rackett.

    :p
     
  18. jbtsax

    jbtsax Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

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    What do you expect. I'm just a sacbut living in Yewtah.
     
  19. pete

    pete Brassica Oleracea Staff Member Administrator

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    Well, I got you to go from double-reeds to brass. I think I won the pun contest.

    :p
     
  20. pete thomas

    pete thomas Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

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    I keep trying but have never had the perseverance to succeed.

    Two of my favourite players used a DLE, John Coltrane and Lee Allen.
     
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