Dumping XP for Linux

saxhound

saxhound

Moderator
Staff member
CE/Moderator
OK, I know we have a bunch of tech nerds here. I'm looking for a recommendation for a Linux distro for my XP laptop. Only two months until XP support goes away, and I have this perfectly good laptop I'd like to continue to use.
Details:
Lenovo Thinkpad R61i
Dual Pentium 1.86 Ghz
3 GB RAM
DVD / CD player / writer

I should add that while I am pretty conversant with Windows in all it's variations since 3.0, I'm a total newb when it comes to Linux, so I don't want to spend weeks learning CLI in order to configure this thing. I'm pretty much a GUI guy, although I still remember a few DOS commands and have been known to make the occasional registry hack.

Usage would primarily be for web browsing, light music editing (Audacity type stuff) & Open Office apps. I also use it currently as a backup machine to run Sibelius, but I don't think that will work unless I maintain a Windows partition. Not sure if that is a good idea or not.

Thoughts & recommendations?
 
I'm not a Linux guy, but if I were going to start using it, I download the free Ubuntu desktop. You can replace your current operating system or run Ubuntu alongside it. Pete's the computer guy on this board and he might have some recommendations.
 
Try out a few distributions and see what you like. I switched from Windows to Linux a couple of years ago and couldn't be happier. I used Ubuntu for a while but am now using Linux Mint (Cinnamon edition), which suits my tastes better (and which some people believe has outstripped Ubuntu for popularity, but there's not really a good way to keep track for sure). With either Ubuntu or Mint the standard installation procedure is to download, burn to a disc, then boot the Linux distribution from that disc. You can play around with it without installing; if you don't like it, just take the disc out and reboot back to Windows. If you do like it, either of those distributions provides a desktop icon to start the easy installation process.

Both distros are very much geared toward GUI use. I haven't made a super-serious effort to become a CLI wizard, but I am discovering that I use it more and more because it's so powerful and fast.

I expect either of those would run great on your hardware. In general, Linux distros are much less resource-hungry than Windows. Plus, with Windows I had to reboot regularly to keep the machine performing well, and reinstall Windows periodically when things just got too bogged down. Linux distros have neither of those problems.

You would need to keep a Windows partition (or install Windows in a virtual box...) to run Sibelius. These days I am using Lilypond, sometimes in a text editor and sometimes with the Frescobaldi GUI overlay, for music notation in both Linux and Windows. It does have a significant learning curve, but also some incredibly powerful features and gorgeous output.
 
Allow me to give you the perspective of one that is not computer literate. I ran XP for many years and became so used to it that I have become dependent, dare I say addicted, to it. I just recently moved to a new, to me at least, dual-core processor computer. Although my new platform is 64 bit capable, I have elected to remain in the 32 bit world, mainly because of my anti-virus which doesn't much care for a 64 bit OS. I have put Win 7 on my C drive and installed a smaller HD in the second slot and put ubuntu in it. I did this only a few days ago and I have been struggling with both of them since. The Win 7 problems that I have run into are just that I am unfamiliar with it. I'm sure that I will adjust to it eventually. The liunux however is somewhat different.This is a whole new learning experience. It is whole new structures, command lines, vocabularies, etc. It is true that linux is not at risk to any known viruses in the natural environment, but that is not the only and in fact not the most common risk to a computer. There is spyware, ransomware, adware and probably a couple of more "wares" out there that linux is open to that are just as irritating. The jury is still out on whether I'll use the ubuntu as much as I had planned to. It is going to depend on whether or not I can find more programs that work on linux and whether or not this old dog can learn a few new tricks.
 
wanabe said:
There is spyware, ransomware, adware and probably a couple of more "wares" out there that linux is open to that are just as irritating.
Click to expand...

This is perhaps true from a technical standpoint, but doesn't match my Linux experience at all. The "open source" software culture that is so wholeheartedly embraced by the Linux community means that any decent piece of Linux software has its code looked at and improved by many people who have no financial stake in it. Particularly if you do most of your installing from the software repositories (another cool benefit of Linux!), everything has been vetted to at least some degree. I honestly can't recall coming across one single such "ware" in 2+ years, installed from the repositories or otherwise.

Certainly there is an adjustment period switching from one operating system to another. I'm not certain that at this point Ubuntu or Mint are 100% as easy to use as Windows, but they are close and getting closer. For even a moderate "power" user of Windows with decent Google-fu, Linux is a very doable switch.
 
I hope that you don't think that I was denigrating linux or ubuntu. I said at the first of my post that I was computer illiterate. I really did mean that. If I was wrong about the "wares", and it appears that I was, I apologize to linux, ubuntu and its advocates and thank you for setting me straight. I whole heartedly agree that there is an adjustment period and I am doing my best to edure two of them, one with Win 7 and one with linux. It's just that the adjustment period for the linux transition appears to me at this time to be more difficult than I thought that it would be. So, wish me luck.
 
I'm a big fan of Win 7. I think they really got it right. I thought about upgrading to 32 bit 7, but I don't think I would be happy with the performance. Didn't realize I could try Linux without committing. The virtual Windows image for Sibelius is an interesting idea as well. I could probably use the free VMware for that.

I really prefer working with Sibelius on my desktop with a big monitor, but sometimes I like to take it with me to a rehearsal so I can tweak things in real time. I've been a Sib user since version 1.0, so I'm pretty set in my ways, although Lilypond sounds interesting.
 
saxhound said:
I'm a big fan of Win 7. I think they really got it right. I thought about upgrading to 32 bit 7, but I don't think I would be happy with the performance. Didn't realize I could try Linux without committing. The virtual Windows image for Sibelius is an interesting idea as well. I could probably use the free VMware for that.

I really prefer working with Sibelius on my desktop with a big monitor, but sometimes I like to take it with me to a rehearsal so I can tweak things in real time. I've been a Sib user since version 1.0, so I'm pretty set in my ways, although Lilypond sounds interesting.
Click to expand...

Linux is a lot easier to use than it was when I started with Red Hat Linux back in 2001. I went through several iterations of Fedora on an old PII machine that I was playing with as a server. Later, I went to ubuntu, and really liked it until they went to the new user interface. You can really get going once you understand the file and permissions structure, and a few smallish CL commands. The only problems I've had with linux is using peripherals like printers or using wireless. You may have to spend some time googling to get answers on that front.

I don't miss XP at all, since I mainly am a Mac guy.
 
I'll first +1 Bret's comment regarding software repositories. Both Apple and Microsoft should do something like that.

It's interesting to come across this thread because I've been playing with various Linux distributions for the past few weeks, partially because I'm working on getting my Linux+ certification and partially because I've realized that my personal computer life is 90% web-based. I'll quickly mention again that I'm a professional computer tech with a bazillion certifications and a bazillion years of experience. I've also used Linux for quite awhile, just not as my main operating system. I say that so I can ask this question and so you can more appreciate the answer:

"How long did it take for you to get all three of your monitors and your TV to work with Linux?" Answer: two weeks.

I know: I'm one of the 4% of users that do have multiple monitors and I know that 2% of those have three or more (real Microsoft study before Windows 8.1 came out). That being said, it was painfully difficult to get the proper information to get my multi-monitor setup to work -- and I got lucky. Well, "lucky" in the sense of I did a lot of research and made a lot of educated guesses based on experience that I don't think most users would have. However, if you do not have more than two monitors and your peripherals have Linux drivers compatible with the flavor of Linux you use, you'll be OK.

IMO, you should get Ubuntu, if you're looking at any flavor of Linux. You can get a close variant, like Kubuntu (read "Ubuntu with different graphics"), but Ubuntu has been around longer than some of its variants (Mint, Mepis, etc.), so there are more users out there and there's a larger knowlege base. Also, you should stick to the "LTS" variants. That's "Long Term Support." Five years, in most cases. The folks at Ubuntu test this version a bit harder than the others ... even though Ubuntu 12.04.4 introduced a problem with the Nvidia Settings control panel ....

If you're going to be using Linux for work, it's probable that folks will be running RedHat Enterprise Linux or CentOS. These Linux variants actively hate you. Look for Korora. That's 100% compatible with Fedora ("free version of RedHat Linux") and really is easier to use. Pretty, too.

==============

Summary:

XP to 7: a bit of a learning curve.
XP to 8.1: a larger learning curve, but it 8.1 is worth it. It's a learning curve about as much as XP to a Mac.
XP to Ubuntu 12.04.4: Highest learning curve. Can be worth it if you have the patience and/or older hardware -- or newer hardware that you want to work faster.
 
Pete, you post hit me like a cold shower. So migrating from XP to ubuntu is the steepest learning curve? Leave it to me to find the most difficult path. I don't know if this forum has a rule about touting other forum sites, but ubuntu advocates have established one that is very helpful. just google ubuntu forums and you'll find it. The absolute beginners section is in my opinion somewhat misnamed. I don't understand a word that they say there, but I am starting to pick up a little. Fortunately, I have always enjoyed then learning process, so this is fun for me, as is learning the clarinet.
 
Tout away.

I should clarify a little: I think it's difficult for your standard user to set-up a Linux machine. After it's set up and provided you're not really planning on adding/removing stuff, it's pretty much like any other OS in a lot of ways. That being said, over the past three weeks-ish, I've found three or four known Linux bugs and one other that I haven't bothered checking on yet. I think your average user might get a little frustrated with that. There are some other odd problems I'm running across, like I can't open the page to add extensions in either Google Chrome or Chromium, so I have to do a work-around. Linux feels a bit unpolished. It changes my workflow. Admittedly, it's a bit fun to tinker with everything, but I really want to have a machine that I don't have to tinker with. Feels too much like work if I have to tinker all the time.

(Aside: My favorite XKCD strip about Linux. I even bought the shirt.)

I do think that all operating systems are unpolished in some way. If you take my multiple display issue I mention, the resolution was, "You must use a Linux kernel that is under 3.8 and you must use an Nvidia driver that is between 304.0 and 318.9. Also, if you happen to have downloaded the new 12.04.4 update, you can't use the 'Apply' button in the Nvidia Settings control panel." I also had to go to about 15 websites to determine that. In Windows XP, it's, "Download the latest driver. Go to the Displays control panel to set the resolution you want." In Windows 7/8, you probably don't even have to worry about the driver. On an iMac or a new Mac Pro (or a laptop, for that matter), you're not going to even have to worry about the video card. Preinstalled.

As far as longevity is concerned, Windows has slipped a lot. I had a 7-year-old iMac that could still run the newest Mac OS without having to reconfigure everything or buy new hardware. I can probably install Windows 8.1 on a PC that old and that's about it. Linux would also work just fine and probably the best of all three.
 
Regarding software repositories, Apple has moved to just such a system for much of the software that will work on the Macintosh system.

The "app" that accesses this is shipped with every new machine, and is added for those who upgrade to the current system. You get an "App Store" icon installed on your "Launchpad" screen, which will take you right to the store. Once there, you can browse if you like (I don't recommend it), or search for a specific title or category (title works better than category, again in my humble opinion).

Once found, you download the "app" to your machine. Upgrades (non-fee) can be handled automatically if you desire, but see note below. Fee upgrades are the same as a purchase.

The advantages here is that Apple strictly controls the quality and compatibility of software on the "app". Downloads are easy, handled through your Apple ID account. Disadvantages are that gamy stuff (FPS, role playing, whatever) are less likely to pass the Apple acceptance procedure. But, that is their fault for not writing compliant software (games are notorious for taking shortcuts not acceptable to Apple), not the fault of Apple.

The worst thing about the process is that you get zero, zip, zulu, zilch documentation with the software. For those of us still accustomed to reading the manual, it's a real bitch.

My favorite graphics program (Fireworks, no longer published by Adobe) has been without a written manual for about six years. However, one was recently published, and I treasure it like gold. I am looking to move to Filemaker (purchased courtesy of my mother's estate), but am dreading the learning process - the box is sitting here next to me where it has resided for the past month or so.

NOTE: Regarding the upgrade process, my computer has downloaded a Brother printer software update (2.10) some ten times over the past month and a half. I have no idea what it does, and my Brother printer seems to work just fine (as long as the rollers are clean of paper dust), but it keeps showing up and getting installed.
 
The major disadvantage of the Apple App Store is that you have to have an Apple account to download and install the stuff. That can be anything from an annoyance -- i.e. one more thing you've gotta sign up for and someone else that has your credit card information -- to work-stopping. The "work-stopping" part comes in when you aren't working on your personal machine: if you need to download and install, say, MacOS 10.9 Mavericks on 150 machines, whose Apple ID do you use?

There is a Microsoft app store, as well, for those folks with Windows 8 and higher. It requires a Microsoft ID -- in most cases. As an example, I had to use my Microsoft ID when I initially tried upgrading my work machine from 8 to 8.1 on the day 8.1 came out, but a month or so later, I was able to download without. Also, the Microsoft app store is primarily for their tablets.

The other problem with the above app stores is that the majority of applications out there aren't in the respective stores so you're not going to have "automatic" upgrades. This is particularly the case with Microsoft because there are so many Windows-based applications. That's almost the reverse of the Linux repositories. The majority of Linux software is in the main repositories and you can add "personal" repositories (PPAs) for some software that isn't in the main ones.

I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. If you're on a Windows or Mac box, your installer is almost always labeled "SETUP" or "INSTALL" (and, on the Mac side, there are quite a few of just "drag this to the Applications folder"). In Linux, unless you're getting something from the repositories, each installer will be different. Example with the Nvidia installer:

* Download installer from Nvidia (it'll be called NVIDIA-Linux-*-331.20.run {the * can mean some other letters or numbers})
* Make the installer executable through a Terminal/Konsole prompt (chmod +x ~/Downloads/NVIDIA-Linux-*-331.20.run)
* Run the installer through a Terminal/Konsole prompt (sudo sh ~/Downloads/NVIDIA-Linux-*-331.20.run)

Oh. Good luck finding these directions on the Nvidia website because they're not there. You're supposed to know that this is how to start up a file with a .run extension. (I also left out about seven steps for other stuff you need to do to make the driver work. I'm just demonstrating installer instructions, not telling you how to install the driver.)

Some packages that end with .deb and .rpm (amongst others) can be double-click and it installs. However, did you know that the .deb files are for Linux flavors based on Debian -- which includes Ubuntu -- and .rpm is for stuff based on RedHat? It makes you feel like you have to read through a few manuals to do anything with Linux.
 
Found another two bugs. One is with Kubuntu (the KDE panel part, to be specific), the other's with Google Chrome + multiple screens. The latter is more amusing because ChromeOS is really a Linux distribution. I could also add another: this forum doesn't look right in Chrome in Kubuntu. It's probably because we use a fluid theme (i.e. the contents stretch to the window size you're using) and because I'm not using a more standard 19" display.

*Deep sigh.*
 
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