In both cases, the description of the horn lists them as "professional" grade. Other than the unfortunate alto clarinetist with the French Guarde Republique, are there any such animals? Does the Marine Band carry an alto clarinetist? None of the Army bands when I was in did. (I suppose that, in a pinch, the military bands could use the alto clarinetist as a runner if they were ever cut off and surrounded. Hitler lived through his spell as a runner, so they might have a chance at surviving.) Notice too that they now offer the full series of Oehler horns to the "rest of the world". What a difference a decade makes... http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/winds/clarinets/germanclarinets/ Damn'd clarinet fascists...I'm still ticked off about having to settle for the Amati... I now have a spouse-imposed limit of $1,000 per horn, unless a German bass clarinet shows up on eBay.de. No limits there other than the total amount of cash available in the discretionary spending account.