The Noblet Paris family of clarinets is quite prevalent in the doubling community if my random checking of fellow sax players is any indication. If they don't own one of the Noblets, they have heard about them or know others who own Noblets. I own a Noblet 45 that I considered an excellent value until I picked up a Buffet R13 the other day for $450. Now, the 45 has taken a backseat to the 13, for obvious reasons. But, the Noblets remain a good deal and I think there must be a ton of them in use. Any others have thoughts, or even better, knowledge, on this?
Noblet
- Thread starter robertsax
- Start date
All I can say is that a couple of years ago I inherited my grandfathers Noblet to go along with his saxes. My guess is that the Noblet were nice quality instruments for the time and were probably priced more reasonably than some of the other clarinets of the era. I'm pretty impressed by the tone that my Noblet has. Very full and rich. I like it even better than my vintage big bore Conn.
That is what I have noticed too. Alot of sax doublers like the Noblets.
Why ??
good comfortable keywork.
A large bore which is great for sax players when push (air) comes to shove for mixing with loud brass players. It can handle a wide variety of mouthpieces.
Of course a nice full, spread tone.
and it's affordable
Why ??
good comfortable keywork.
A large bore which is great for sax players when push (air) comes to shove for mixing with loud brass players. It can handle a wide variety of mouthpieces.
Of course a nice full, spread tone.
and it's affordable
Much depends upon one's particular Noblet. I had a 1964 Noblet restored after a friend gave it to me. This Noblet has a beautiful dark tone and decent intonation. I used it for several years and was happy enough with it. However, when I was introduced to vintage Couesnon clarinets I quickly discovered that there is no comparison between a pro-level Couesnon and a Noblet. Amazingly, the two Couesnons I have were acquired for prices only a little higher than the price range I've seen for some used Noblets.
A couple of years ago I tried a new Noblet at a local music store and was shocked at its lower level of quality and craftsmanship from the vintage Noblets I've played. It's my suggestion that if one wants to play a Noblet to find one made in the 60's or 70's that is in good playable condition. The quality of wood and craftsmanship will be significantly better than the new ones. My opinion anyway.
Personally, I don't think a larger bore clarinet is that helpful to a doubler. I'm thinking it's something of an urban legend. I've tried various bore sizes and, for me, my 1970's Couesnon (with a Buffet sized bore) has the amount of projection, tonal "ring" (very important to me), and tonal qualities that really do it for me. Much more goes into projection with a clarinet than the bore size.
Roger
A couple of years ago I tried a new Noblet at a local music store and was shocked at its lower level of quality and craftsmanship from the vintage Noblets I've played. It's my suggestion that if one wants to play a Noblet to find one made in the 60's or 70's that is in good playable condition. The quality of wood and craftsmanship will be significantly better than the new ones. My opinion anyway.
Personally, I don't think a larger bore clarinet is that helpful to a doubler. I'm thinking it's something of an urban legend. I've tried various bore sizes and, for me, my 1970's Couesnon (with a Buffet sized bore) has the amount of projection, tonal "ring" (very important to me), and tonal qualities that really do it for me. Much more goes into projection with a clarinet than the bore size.
Roger
I'd agree that it probably depends on which one. You have to note that Noblets have been around for what? 250 years?
I, myself, am a fan of just about anything Yamaha, although I've also been pretty happy with the Buffet student clarinets, too. I think it's a combination of *decent* clarinet coupled with *really good* clarinet mouthpiece. I've got a nice Selmer C120 mouthpiece (that's been collecting dust for the past 20 years or so).
FWIW, most of the folks that I know that double play Selmers. Various models.
I, myself, am a fan of just about anything Yamaha, although I've also been pretty happy with the Buffet student clarinets, too. I think it's a combination of *decent* clarinet coupled with *really good* clarinet mouthpiece. I've got a nice Selmer C120 mouthpiece (that's been collecting dust for the past 20 years or so).
FWIW, most of the folks that I know that double play Selmers. Various models.
I prefer the Noblet 45s and early emblem 40s. I had a mid 1960s 45 model for a long time
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galle ... _early.htm
- it had a beautiful unstained bell that had heavy colors of red in it. I've also played earlier and later models. the early emblem 40s are great instruments too.
While it is true that the "bore" itself does not make it project more or less there's also more to projection than a large or small bore. The shape of the bell is significant, mouthpiece, embouchure, et all. The entire acoustical attributes of a clarinet is quite complex down to the size of the toneholes which vary from student, intermediate to pro level instruments.
But in general, alot of sax players on a budget tend to gravitate to the Noblets.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galle ... _early.htm
- it had a beautiful unstained bell that had heavy colors of red in it. I've also played earlier and later models. the early emblem 40s are great instruments too.
While it is true that the "bore" itself does not make it project more or less there's also more to projection than a large or small bore. The shape of the bell is significant, mouthpiece, embouchure, et all. The entire acoustical attributes of a clarinet is quite complex down to the size of the toneholes which vary from student, intermediate to pro level instruments.
But in general, alot of sax players on a budget tend to gravitate to the Noblets.
Do you have a diamond emblem - Noblet 45
oval or rounded rectangle ? - Noblet 40s
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/snclarinet.htm#EmblemNoblet
oval or rounded rectangle ? - Noblet 40s
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/snclarinet.htm#EmblemNoblet
This is a good reference, Steve. I can hardly wait to get home to check where my Noblet 45 fits on this table.SteveSklar said:
As for what percentage of doublers use Noblets, my reference base is way too skimpy to qualify as an acceptable sample, so I'll back off from my earlier comment about that. I think I paid only $250 for my Noblet, which still is in excellent condition, and remembered thinking I got a great deal, which goes to the affordability factor for doublers.
Very interesting discussion.
There's also the plateau key model that is only available (in affordable form) from Noblet. I know of at least two sax players who have bought them for just that very reason.
I take a slightly different approach to the finger hole problem when I had students who played sax and who I force fed clarinet playing to at an early age. Instead of the candy-ass plateau horns, I would start them on the bargain basement Vito student sopranos. To this day, you can (with careful shopping) pick these up for under $50.00 through a variety of sources (pawn shops, thrift shops and the like). Purchase a decent mouthpiece and you're ready to go.
The small finger holes on the Vitos were sized to fit grade school aged girls hands, and were much more forgiving than a standard soprano clarinet, and the investment in a Vito horn was literally nothing compared to any of the alternatives. Then, once they mastered the tricky (for a sax player) finger hole problem, they could move up to a "real" clarinet, preferably a Selmer product of course.
Regarding the Noblet horns, I was once told by an "insider" that the Noblet horns were the less than cosmetically perfect standard Leblanc horns. The badging did not take place until late in the assembly process. Certainly, the fit and finish on Noblets has always been better than that on the few Signets I've seen over the past forty years.
I take a slightly different approach to the finger hole problem when I had students who played sax and who I force fed clarinet playing to at an early age. Instead of the candy-ass plateau horns, I would start them on the bargain basement Vito student sopranos. To this day, you can (with careful shopping) pick these up for under $50.00 through a variety of sources (pawn shops, thrift shops and the like). Purchase a decent mouthpiece and you're ready to go.
The small finger holes on the Vitos were sized to fit grade school aged girls hands, and were much more forgiving than a standard soprano clarinet, and the investment in a Vito horn was literally nothing compared to any of the alternatives. Then, once they mastered the tricky (for a sax player) finger hole problem, they could move up to a "real" clarinet, preferably a Selmer product of course.
Regarding the Noblet horns, I was once told by an "insider" that the Noblet horns were the less than cosmetically perfect standard Leblanc horns. The badging did not take place until late in the assembly process. Certainly, the fit and finish on Noblets has always been better than that on the few Signets I've seen over the past forty years.
The plateaus were offered with Normandy, Noblet and at one time the Leblanc LL was also offered. See the plateau link
The Noblets are larger bore. the only Leblanc with that bore would have been the Dynamic and Pete Foutaine model. I dont know what other models there currently are with the same bore. But there has been key layout differences between the Noblet and Leblancs. very minute but noticeable.
I would guess the Noblets are more trickle down nowadays from the 45 to the 40 to the Normandy 4s (now Leblanc 4s) than from the Leblanc line. They don't seem to make a large run of PF models for a trickle down effect.
The Noblets are larger bore. the only Leblanc with that bore would have been the Dynamic and Pete Foutaine model. I dont know what other models there currently are with the same bore. But there has been key layout differences between the Noblet and Leblancs. very minute but noticeable.
I would guess the Noblets are more trickle down nowadays from the 45 to the 40 to the Normandy 4s (now Leblanc 4s) than from the Leblanc line. They don't seem to make a large run of PF models for a trickle down effect.
I have a Normandy from the mid-to-late 40s, and a Noblet I bought my son. he didn't take to the Noblet so it collects dust. I think I'll go check it out, for fun. I didn't pay much for the Noblet, probably $150 or so on ebay.
Knowing what I know now I would not buy another instrument off ebay.
Knowing what I know now I would not buy another instrument off ebay.
Ebay works, but only if you know what you are looking for and are willing to take a risk. I've bought about five horns off of the service, and in each case I got exactly what I was looking for. Just make sure that (with clarinets) you get a written statement of "no cracks" - you generally can't see them in an on-line photo, and they are the most likely cause of a horn turning out to be no good.
And, there's nothing wrong with Normandy and Noblet horns, other than they follow Leblanc design practices. If you can abide a Leblanc clarinet, then Normandys and Noblets should do you just fine.
And, there's nothing wrong with Normandy and Noblet horns, other than they follow Leblanc design practices. If you can abide a Leblanc clarinet, then Normandys and Noblets should do you just fine.