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Some help with C-Melody repair please?

I'm having fun. I was getting bored with my guitar projects. And I love antique Amercana type usable things. And, I am really enjoying finally learning to play woodwinds(the best part).


You are welcomed to send me, gratis, all of your vintage guitar gear especially any Fender or Gibson or other highly sought after makes. :)
 
You are welcomed to send me, gratis, all of your vintage guitar gear especially any Fender or Gibson or other highly sought after makes. :)

Yeea, thanks just the same...but I might just need that stuff. LOL
 
Stuck...

on the needle springs. Since I had the Pan Am put together and in decent repair, I decided to dive into the Bruno. Unfortunately when I measured springs, I jotted down the lengths, but not the diameter. Actually, the old springs were so rusty, I doubt accurate diameter measurements could have been made. Can anyone help me sort out the diameters of springs? I believe there were three sizes? I would rather not having to tear down the Pan Am just to measure all the springs. Also, I was wondering if piano wire is a good choice for spring stock, as I have found a good deal on it. Premade needle springs are obviously out of the question. Nobody has them.

Next question is, what do I call the rod stock for making the rod screws? And is there a special tool for cutting the slot?

TIA
 
Do you have all the rusted needle springs in a pile ?

MusicMedic has them here
http://www.musicmedic.com/catalog/products/sprg-b100.html

Ferrees here (needle on left, cylindrical "wire" stainless steel on right)
http://www.ferreestools.com/index_files/Page131.htm

Votaw tool here - as an example .. you have to look around the web page listing
http://www.votawtool.com/zcom.asp?pg=search&mode=results

The first thing I would check before thinking using piano wire is look at the needle cradle.
On many vintage instruments (clarinets for me) these cradles are design to accomodate the pointy end of the needle.
And a cylindrical spring (piano) wire will not work in these instances.

But you either buy an assortment, or measure the diameter of your springs.

You can also try your local repair shop and work with them on selecting springs from their inventory.

Also when you get your springs they probably are not the correct length. Thus you will have to cut them, and then flatten the end. If you noticed in the post and the end of the springs that they probably are flattened a bit.
 
Thanks for the help. That will get me there. I do not have the rusty springs as they got tossed with two sets of nasty rotten pads. I went a little nutz after the thing bit me I guess. lol

I was planning on sharpening the end of the wire for the needle points. I am thinking long term though, as far as cost effective, I have found 9 foot lengths of piano wire for $5 ea. This way I have plenty of spring around when needed. I guess what I would like to know is, how many diameters are used in (most) woodwinds? If there are 5 or 7 'normal' sizes, I could just get all those sizes, as I do have a couple of clarinets I will be servicing as well. I don't suppose it is that easy though.
 
Quite honestly, springs are relatively inexpensive. Why go with something you have to fiddle f' around with? Just buy what was made for the job.

A friend of mine likes to buy junker horns and rebuild them. He's bought a couple of the mixed the mixed spring sets from Music Medic.

If you phone them and tell them what kind of sax you need springs for, they'll be able to tell you exactly what you'll need, and how many--as long as the stencil manufacturers are known. Remember you'll need to order extras, since there will be at least 1 causality when you go to put them in. They can easily snap. (That's why my friend likes having the mixed set around.)
 
I don't mind the extra work, and it would be nice to have supplies on hand rather than having to order springs for every project.
 
The word on the "street" among repair techs is that the best springs available are from Kraus which are stainless steel with no points. Kraus also only sells to professional techs and even then it is a PITA to order from him. The next best are supposedly the blued steel needle springs Music Medic sells, but at $95 for an assortment of 190 springs they are a lot more expensive than Ferree's which are only $14.60 for 100 springs but they do not come in vials with a holder. To get that you need to order the set of 350 for $60.60. The Music Medic springs come in marked vials and a holder. For the amateur on a budget, the Ferree's set of 100 would work just fine.

Making rod screws from drill rod stock requires that you have the correct size die (and tap) to cut the threads in the rod and clean the threads in the post (if needed). Most techs I know cut the slot using a jewelers saw. I hold the rod in a bench motor and file a notch with a very small jeweler's file. That makes it easier to start the saw cut, which I just eyeball to get in the center of the rod. There is a tool that centers the cut perfectly every time but it is quite expensive. Be careful not to go more than 1mm deep on the cut or the strength of the slot "ears" will be compromised.
 
Sounds good. I am still curious about piano wire, but if no one thinks it will work well I'll get springs from Ferree's. Thanks for the explanation.

I am aware that I'll need the correct die for the rod, I'll get the one I need. NP

My first instinct on the slot was to eyeball it, but I thought I'd ask the pros how they do it. I saw the tool in the Ferree's catalog, at $60 it ain't gonna happen just to cut three or four rods. lol I'll eyeball. I tend to do that alot anyway, so I should be OK.

Thanks all for the advice and links.
 
The word on the "street" among repair techs is that the best springs available are from Kraus which are stainless steel with no points. Kraus also only sells to professional techs and even then it is a PITA to order from him.

I had to have a couple of springs replaced on my Toneking during its recent restoration. These were put in. They are very nice.


The next best are supposedly the blued steel needle springs Music Medic sells, but at $95 for an assortment of 190 springs they are a lot more expensive than Ferree's which are only $14.60 for 100 springs but they do not come in vials with a holder. To get that you need to order the set of 350 for $60.60. The Music Medic springs come in marked vials and a holder. For the amateur on a budget, the Ferree's set of 100 would work just fine.

I checked the links that Steve posted this morning and noted a price difference, but I didn't realize it was that significant. My bad.

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Maybe one of you experienced techs who is hanging out here can answer this, but why are the original springs--when in good repair--on vintage, pro horns, better than what we can buy now? Or is this only a fallacy?
 
The word on the "street" among repair techs is that the best springs available are from Kraus which are stainless steel with no points. Kraus also only sells to professional techs and even then it is a PITA to order from him. ..
thus the reason I didn't list those ...

the three i listed will sell to any buyer though Votaw has preferred prices for professionals
 
Maybe one of you experienced techs who is hanging out here can answer this, but why are the original springs--when in good repair--on vintage, pro horns, better than what we can buy now? Or is this only a fallacy?

In my experience this is true. I won't mention the names of suppliers, but I have purchased more than one set of blued steel springs that were very disappointing. They had to be overly curved to have any pull at all, and oftentimes were so brittle that they snapped when trying to put more curve in them. For this reason I generally leave original springs in vintage horns when they are not rusted or damaged because they are better than what I could replace them with. Why this is so is a great question. I really don't know why the technology and manufacturing of springs produced a better product 50 and 60 years ago.

I just purchased a set from Curt Altarac at Music Medic and am anxious to try them out. I hope they live up to the hype about them when they first came out. I'm still waiting to get a set of stainless steel spring from Kraus. He currently won't sell sets because he is out of the 2 largest sizes, and doesn't know when he will have more. In the meantime he refuses to sell a set without those 2 largest sizes even if someone offers to pay the full set price to get them right away. Go figure. . .
 
In my experience this is true. I won't mention the names of suppliers, but I have purchased more than one set of blued steel springs that were very disappointing. They had to be overly curved to have any pull at all, and oftentimes were so brittle that they snapped when trying to put more curve in them. For this reason I generally leave original springs in vintage horns when they are not rusted or damaged because they are better than what I could replace them with. Why this is so is a great question. I really don't know why the technology and manufacturing of springs produced a better product 50 and 60 years ago. .

Luckily My Pan Am has nearly perfect springs. Doubt they are original, but deffinately quite old. The pads were basically held together with dust and disintegrated upon removal, but the springs quite nice, just a bit grungy.
 
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