The switch: Bb soprano to Bb bass clarinet.

I like playing the soprano, but, recently I have listened to wonderfully awesome bass clarinet playing, and I finally realise the ability of the bass clarinet. I was wondering what I could do with it. I come here asking many MANY questions:

1. What are the advantages to completely switching to bass clarinet?
2. What are the disadvantages?
3. Is it easy or hard to switch from Bb soprano clarinet to Bass clarinet?
4. What are the major differences?
5. What is your opinion of the bass clarinet?
6. Do you prefer the bass clarinet or the soprano clarinet?
7. Do you think I should switch?

(I'm sorry for all the questions. I'm a really curious kid who wants to make the most of what he can get with music(and basically life too). You don't have to answer all the questions(unless you want to), but please, at least answer the questions you think would help me the most.
 
I like playing the soprano, but, recently I have listened to wonderfully awesome bass clarinet playing, and I finally realise the ability of the bass clarinet. I was wondering what I could do with it. I come here asking many MANY questions:

1. What are the advantages to completely switching to bass clarinet?
2. What are the disadvantages?
3. Is it easy or hard to switch from Bb soprano clarinet to Bass clarinet?
4. What are the major differences?
5. What is your opinion of the bass clarinet?
6. Do you prefer the bass clarinet or the soprano clarinet?
7. Do you think I should switch?

(I'm sorry for all the questions. I'm a really curious kid who wants to make the most of what he can get with music(and basically life too). You don't have to answer all the questions(unless you want to), but please, at least answer the questions you think would help me the most.
1. Not having your time occupied with regular gigs and rehearsals.
2. More time to weed the garden, learn chinese ...
3. Yes
4. Expensive, fussy, high maintenance, fragile.
5. Great instrument, I wish more folks knew how to write for it.
6. No
7. Do you own a bass/ can you afford to buy and maintain one?

It's a great instrument, but there is more literature and generally more interesting parts for Soprano Bb clarinet. When the Bass has a solo, it is generally a challenging one on par with the 1st clarinet solo parts, but otherwise it is long tones and trombone parts.
 
Some semi-random answers to your questions:

The biggest problem with the switch is the cost of the instrument. Even if you have a supplied horn, cost factors are going to enter into the switch at each and every level:

• The hardware is where it all starts. At the very most basic level, a decent student clarinet can be had for a couple of hundred bucks. A decent bass clarinet is going to run you some multiple of that, probably five or so.

While a bass is a bit more complicated in design than a soprano, the main factor here is the size of the instrument. Double the length, but volume varies by the cube root. So, you've got greater surface area to finish and detail, and all of that there. While labor is probably the greatest expense in creating either horn, there is the perceived value issue, where a manufacturer sets a price by what the producer thinks the purchaser would pay.

In any event, they are bigger. Bigger reeds are the first result of this. (Bigger swabs, too.) Round these parts, the reeds (even bassoon reeds) are supplied by the schools, but when I was a young tad, you bought your own. Ouch!

Big also means orthometric problems. Little bodies are not particularly suited to playing the bass clarinet. The finger stretch on a soprano is sometimes too much for the slight player, as is the flat neck angle with which most entry level basses are sold. This may rule out bass clarinet playing for some, although most everyone grows into a suitable size.

But, the real kicker is the big maintenance costs. I just got my principal bass clarinet (a Selmer Model 33 extended range horn) re-regulated. (We're in show season here, and I'm playing two bass clarinet intensive books, Cinderella and a rewrite of Annie Get Your Gun, which actually employs the extended range notes), and it was almost time for the semi-annual tune up anyway. Total cost out the door, with no new pads and only a cork or two replaced, was $52.00.

Not many parents (and even fewer school districts) would look favorably upon a hundred bucks per annum for instrument maintenance. I spend about twice the amount on the bass as I do on my baritone each year, most of it attributed to those saucer pads on the lower joint.

The trouble is that most schools (and parents) are not willing to invest the extra money to keep one of these larger (and much more vulnerable) instruments in good working order. As the precise area that these pads are located in is also the most vulnerable to contact with chairs and the like, they are frequently "dinged" just enough to make playing a bass over the break a trial once the damage is done.

With my bass students back in the 1980's, the main problem that they faced was this damage to the large pads on the lower joint. I had the parents commit to the purchase of a student bass before I would take their child on as a student. (Most were comfortably middle class or higher, and had no problem with the expense.) If they did not do this, I politely sent them on their way.

In each and every case, a student who was going through agonies playing on a school bass clarinet "took off" like a rocket once they had an instrument that was protected from the typical kind of abuse that any school horn gets; the trip over the break was no longer a challenge. (One particularly dedicated student was actually in tears when she first tried her new horn.)

This maintenance cost issue comes into play in another way, for many bass clarinets available for purchase are ex-school horns, and have thus lived a very hard life. Look at some of the auctions on eBay for second hand basses, and you will see what I mean. Getting this fixed is a cost that needs to be built into the horn - don't count on getting a flawless instrument. (They never come that way from the factory, either.)

° Technologically speaking, when you purchase a soprano clarinet, you end up with the "bog standard" Klóse Boehm soprano, the same as what has been produced for French style clarinet players for the last century and a half. Indeed, it's hard to purchase anything but.

With bass clarinets, it's a bit different. Horns below the professional level are going to come with the "on the body" register key assembly (except for those from China). This "simple system" throws one tone hole open for Bb in the staff, and another for everything in the clarinet register and above.

This works, but the sad truth is that trying to get a good clean sound out of that single "on the body" register key opening causes less than optimal production of some of the notes to which it is applied. (Oddly enough, this "simple system" is an improvement for the Bb.)

(Not everyone feels this way, but I would submit that the preference that some show for this register mechanism is usually shaped by the fact that it is the mechanism available to them. In effect, they make do.)

WIth the other register mechanism (the "on the neck" vent one), you still have two tone holes operated by the register key. However, one opens for the notes running from Bb on up to D in the staff, whereupon the second hole is automatically substituted. This makes for a much smoother transition from the lower range to the higher one, although the "simple system" often has a better sounding Bb.

However, the "on the neck" register system is much more susceptible to damage. There is a lot of linkage and rods and little flippy parts on these horns that makes this all happen. On an aging Kohler bass clarinet with this type of system, the day-to-day school use often leaves it broken or at least sadly out of regulation. And, on a horn with less than quality keywork (think Chinese here), the long rods involved (a total of about a foot and a half of axle key) are far too easily bent, even just when handling the horn in and out of the case.

For someone in school, I would be hesitant to recommend anything but the "simple" register key mechanism. And, the manufacturers seem to agree with me - I'm glad I got something right. For an adult (or a serious high school student or a very serious junior high student, the "on the neck" system should work just fine.

(What about the problem with the throat Bb? This is where that second trill key from the top is your best friend. For quarter notes and longer, play the throat Bb with this key and the A key, and all will be fine. I am amazed that more do not follow this system, but there you go - there's nought like folk.)

The time to step up to a "professional" instrument is upon taking up a music degree in college. Before if you have the money to spend, but otherwise wait. A quality bass clarinet will set you back something in the neighborhood of $6,000 - not small change by any standard.

• What are the "joys" of bass clarinet playing? Well, they come in a number of varieties:

1) If you apply yourself on bass, you will have a much better shot at playing in higher level groups (All-State, All-County, whatever). Good clarinet players are a dime a dozen, good bass clarinet players (with properly functioning instruments) come in the dollar a dozen range.

2) On bass, you will have two instruments under your belt at a very young age. Despite what you may believe, pure clarinet playing is not all that much in demand these days. Instead, "pro" work (or even semi-pro work) will come with a "must play flute, clarinet, alto saxophone, bass clarinet" qualifier.

If your school does musicals, you will quickly find that each reed book (on anything done after the 1940's) will typically look for one person playing three or four instruments. Getting bass clarinet down now will bring you a long way towards dealing with this. (It also sort of "pre-trains" you for playing saxophone.)

3) Bass clarinet parts are often boring at the secondary school level. However, as an atmosphere instrument, the bass is only equalled by the english horn and bassoon in its application. As you start playing music at a higher level, you will find more and more of these parts cropping up. For example, Gershwin's An American In Paris suite (in the full orchestral version) has three extremely prominent bass clarinet solos, two of which can be milked for all they are worth.

4) Did I mention orchestra music? In "real" (i.e., philharmonic) school orchestras, there are usually only two clarinet players. But, in districts with more challenging programs, the director will (if given the option of a technically competent bass clarinet player) reach out to stuff like the aforementioned Gershwin piece. Better for the group, better for the player.

If you are looking to play bass in a school (or college) orchestra, you should also keep your soprano chops up to snuff. At the advanced high school level, only about one in five pieces performed will have a bass clarinet part. Most likely, you will only be called upon to sit in (rather than take the class all semester) in such circumstances.

(When I was a high schooler, my district (despite having a very highly regarded music program) did not have an orchestra. As a result, I found myself being the only kid from a school that did not have an orchestra in the All-County Orchestra. Of course, doubling on soprano and bassoon didn't hurt - you can never have too many competent bassoon players around...)

• Should you own your own?

Without question, if you want it to stay in good playing order. I can't stress this point enough - if you know what you are doing, you can get by on a school horn, but it's not something I'd want to have to do on a daily basis.

• Bass clarinet or soprano clarinet?

Ideally, both, plus flute and a saxophone. Most show books (a good part of the available pro or semi-pro income from music out there in the big bad real world) will have a Reed IV or V book with clarinet, bass clarinet and baritone saxophone. Expensive to own, but if you can handle all three, you can pretty well barge your way in and make $500 a production, as the skills set is not all that common. Our union local has a directory that has scads of clarinet and alto/tenor players, but only one tenth as many bass and baritone players. There's your musical road map, plain and simple. (The school baritone will probably be in good enough condition.)

In addition to being rewarding financially, shows are challenging (with extended sections in high flat and sharp (especially sharp) keys, exposed passages and plenty of solos for all instruments). Spend time in the orchestral pit, and you'll never want to see another concert band part.

You will probably learn sax on an alto, but it all transfers to any of the other saxes, so don't worry.
 
1. What are the advantages to completely switching to bass clarinet?
2. What are the disadvantages?
3. Is it easy or hard to switch from Bb soprano clarinet to Bass clarinet?
4. What are the major differences?
5. What is your opinion of the bass clarinet?
6. Do you prefer the bass clarinet or the soprano clarinet?
7. Do you think I should switch?
First, allow me to mention that this was my first switch, as well.

1. If you OWN a bass clarinet, you have the opportunity to have a lot of folks ask if they can borrow your horn. Do it. For a price.

Another thing, just focusing on the school aspect, there are generally far few fewer bass clarinet players than soprano clarinet players. This means (and this can also be a disadvantage) that you can have more attention paid to you by the director, if he happens to do sectionals. That can make you a better player.

2. As Carl mentions, the bass clarinet is very much a specialist's instrument and there isn't that much call for it in the professional world unless you are really, really good.

The other major disadvantage, especially in a school ensemble, is that you're probably going to play parts that double something. That can get pretty boring, pretty quick.

3. I didn't think it was incredibly difficult.

4. Well, there is one and 1/2 major differences: the bass clarinet is an octave lower -- and if you've got that low C extension, that's about an extra half. The sound is unique to the instrument and, if you've done Suzuki Method, you can get a little turned around.

The keys on (most) bass clarinets are closed and that means you can hold the horn differently. Just remember that different != sloppy -- especially if you want to go back to soprano clarinet.

The mouthpiece is much bigger and you'll have to use a different embochure. My instructors have always said (and I, in turn, have told my students) that if you play more soprano clarinet, the better your embochure will be on bass clarinet.

5 & 6. I love the bass clarinet, provided the horn is played like a bass clarinet and not like just a big clarinet. Try some of this. That's the tone I like.

7. If you do switch, will you have a DECENT horn to use? I lucked out in high school: I had a choice of three horns that were in good shape. In my "pro" career, I used a Buffet that was in so-so shape. I never bought one.

I can't tell you to switch if you have to buy one. While there are some decent used bass clarinets out there, you're still probably talking $1000 for one in good shape. A new one's $1500+. Very few high school students are as insane as I was: I bought two different baritone saxophones, one for $800 and then one for $1800. In the 1980's.

I feel I could have done a very good job throughout my career on just bass clarinet, but if you plan to go to college for music, as I did, I knew that I'd have 5 or 6 times the competition on clarinet than I did on sax.

I've never regretted staying with bari sax, but I think that the bass clarinet was an awful lot of fun to play, more so than even the contrabass clarinet.

I will now channel SOTSDO: if they offer you an opportunity to play alto clarinet instead, run away.
 
It would advantageous to become a very accomplished player on the Bb soprano clarinet first before branching out to the different sized clarinets or doubling on the other woodwinds.
 
If you're looking to buy one, beware that even the vintage French ones can be rather pricy. Usually $1000-$1500 for the decent ones. Advantage is you can make a decent amount of money on them as bass clarinet players are always in demant. I'd say do it, but make sure that you keep your Bb playing up, because you usually audition on Bb and get put on bass, not the other way around. If you're school has a good bass *i.e., NOT the vito's or Selmer USA's* and it's in good working order, I'd just muck around on it. If not, and your parents can afford one, I'd buy a used vintage french bass from someone on here or SoTW, if you PM me, I know a couple guys trying to sell theirs. I still play a Selmer from the 60's and it's got some balls. If I need a low C I have one, but my Eb gets a LOT of workout time.
 
Th opinion of someone can be different depending on where they are coming from as a musician. Here are my answers and other info that I don't necessarily agree with other posts on some points.

1. What are the advantages to completely switching to bass clarinet?
2. What are the disadvantages?
3. Is it easy or hard to switch from Bb soprano clarinet to Bass clarinet?
4. What are the major differences?
5. What is your opinion of the bass clarinet?
6. Do you prefer the bass clarinet or the soprano clarinet?
7. Do you think I should switch?

1. Completely switching? Why? If you play soprano clarinet, why not add it to soprano clarinet? You don't have to stop playing soprano because you add bass. I added bass clarinet when I was about 15 (about 8 years after starting soprano clarinet). Since then I've been playing both, slightly more bass than soprano. Re the POV that you first have to play very good on your first instrument, I know great players who added instruments and learned several at the same time. I think this comes from thinking about bass clarinet only as a double, which is in some cases not the case.

2. Carrying the big case of the bass clarinet. Need to have reeds for another instrument. If you buy, buying a bass clarinet, which can be expensive, even very expensive for an excellent one. Not having much music written for it is not a disadvantage for me. Most written music I play is for bass clarinet. A lot of what I play is not written music. I have the choice what to play a lot of the time so this is just not an issue at all.

3. Easy for some people, hard for some people. I would say it was about the middle when I started, but that was on a Vito in bad condition. The moment I got a very good bass clarinet it was imedaitely much easier.

4. What other mentioned. The size. Closed holes. Feels a bit different, both in your hands and the embochure, but not completely different. Some fingerings are slightly different (small differences only). Bigger range for bass.

5. I think it's a great instrument. The only instrument I like to play more than bass clarinet is both bass clarient and soprano clarinet.

6. Not really. I prefer to play both.

7. Only you can decide that. But I would recommend to add it rather than switch to it.

Other than that, just to correct something in SOTSDO's post. The bass clarinets with "vent on the neck" are not really that, instead there are two vents, one on the body and one on the neck. The body vent also acts as a throat Bb tone hole. Also, the lower vent is changed by the G/D key, so it's up to D#, not D.

Re the throat Bb, it is not necessarily worse on double register vent models. On some, like the best new models, it is very good. I rarely use the side Bb because the throat one is nearly as good. Some older models have this note a bit stuffy, but not all either. Some single vent models have a bit of a stuffy throat Bb too.

I agree with him about owning an instrument. At least a decent student model and important in good condition too. I played for a year on a rented Vito from about 15, then around 16 bought a very good low C model. It was mostly obvious I would continue to play in university etc.

Re the maintenance cost, it doesn't have to so high. I repair my instruments, but if I charged myself then on my current bass low C with double vent, from approx 6 years ago, I guess I would average less than $50 a year, probably less. Most of that was an initial setup from new, after that it required almost nothing. However I've seen new bass clarinets in terrible condition, like a new Selmer a friend of mine bought which was hard to believe the many problems.

Re adding flute and saxophone too, that again depends on what you want to do. I chose a direction to follow what I want to play, not what affected by what can help get more work, etc. so if you follow that too, you just choose what to play and what instruments.
 
in regards to question 1. You shouldn't consider switching to any one instrument, especially in the woodwind family unless you are virtuoso level. You will not be marketable...
Why would I hire you for a bass clarinet part, then have to hire another person for Bb part, and yet another for say flute, when I can have one guy that does all 3. Will the one guy be as good on any one instrument? Not necessarily, but it's one guy versus three that you have to stay in contact with and if you have to double, well you won't get hired.
That being said, if you're a b*tchin Bb clarinet player and own your own bass, and are good at it, you will be rather marketable and that works. I chose to play all 3 since they are close enough for me, but again, it's up to you and what you want.
I guess what we're all saying is don't switch permanently to bass, and if you start playing, keep the Bb up. If you have the option to stay on 1st clarinet, stay there, it will be much more beneficial for your fingers and reading than bass will.
 
1. What are the advantages to completely switching to bass clarinet?
Not too many. You have (theoretically) still one instrument, it's just bigger.

2. What are the disadvantages?
Limit your market value.

3. Is it easy or hard to switch from Bb soprano clarinet to Bass clarinet?
Not all that hard, given enough dedication.

4. What are the major differences?
Air. Embouchure.

5. What is your opinion of the bass clarinet?
Luv it.

6. Do you prefer the bass clarinet or the soprano clarinet?
Depends on the repertoire. Some pieces are better suited for bass, some are easier on soprano.

7. Do you think I should switch?
No. Do double, but don't switch.
 
Th opinion of someone can be different depending on where they are coming from as a musician. Here are my answers and other info that I don't necessarily agree with other posts on some points.



1. Completely switching? Why? If you play soprano clarinet, why not add it to soprano clarinet?

Well, Where would I play soprano clarinet if I play bass clarinet in school band(I want to be drum major in my marching band, so no instruments there.)?
 
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Well, Where would I play soprano clarinet if I play bass clarinet in school band(I want to be drum major in my marching band, so no instruments there.)?
I play soprano in summer and for marching, and bass in winter while sitting. Good balance. And I'm getting requested for subbing on soprano, not bass.
Last fall I only had my bass with me but the director decided to start afresh (after the vacation season) with some marching book literature. So I played my Sousas and Mantegazzis (and, come to speak of it, J.S. Taylor's "Drum Major") on bass...
 
I'd ask the director if you can stay playing soprano, but if you could take a bass, or better yet. Play in a community band. May not be the best players in the world, but it might have some. They are almost always looking for low reed players, and it's an opportunity for you to play a lot more music.
 
I'd ask the director if you can stay playing soprano, but if you could take a bass, or better yet. Play in a community band. May not be the best players in the world, but it might have some. They are almost always looking for low reed players, and it's an opportunity for you to play a lot more music.

+100 for the community band. Quite a different animal from school band, which is not only bad.
In the end, it's all about networking. Get to know someone, get invited for subbing, find new friends, play new music, and in no time you'll find your calendar is full of gigs. Long as you aren't after the money, what more would you want?
 
Well, Where would I play soprano clarinet if I play bass clarinet in school band(I want to be drum major in my marching band, so no instruments there.)?
Hmm... I don't know. That's why I said the answers depend on where a musician is coming from. Only you can decide what you really want to do and what you will do. For example that's why my approach is very different from the "marketable" approach in saxplayers1004's post. You need to see what suits you best.
 
If you decide to go to bass clarinet I would definitely keep the soprano clarinet going.

I'm in a bit different of a situation, but I started out as only a tenor player ... now I play a whole bunch of instruments.

This year at school, in terms of saxophone, I'm playing only alto and most of the gigs I've been doing are on only alto, and I prefer playing alto. However, I got a call a few weeks ago to sub into a big band on tenor. If I had stopped practising, I wouldn't have had the chops needed to play it with a band of that calibre on short notice.

The more instruments you play (well) the better chance a playing opportunity will come along that you'll be a good fit for. :eek:)
 
In response to what Nitai said. I wish I had the luxury of playing only what I wanted, and while what I play for the most part is what I want as far as instruments go, to play the types of music I want to play I have to bend a little bit. I would rather not play piccolo, Eb clarinet, oboe or soprano, but some of the pit orchestras and big band band charts I want to play require it. I really want to do pits, and as such I can't only play the instruments I want to play. That being said, I have made my name known primarily as a low reed player, so a lot of my calls are on bassoon, bass clarinet, bari sax and flute which is ideal for the both the types of playing I want to do, and the instruments I play them on. I also tend to play bari in big band, which is also my preference, and whenever there are doubles I just switch seats with whatever player has that book.

summary.
If you want to play bass clarinet because you like it, then do it. Don't stop playing Bb clarinet, because if you are only playing bass in high school band, you're technique will go to hell real quick, so either play Bb in school and bass in community or vice versa.
Nitai said he only plays what he likes. In order to find out what you like, you have to try everything, which I know he has. Experiment as much as possible while you have access to a band that will let you do it and the instruments needed.
 
The bass clarinet is the best saxophone on earth ;-) Yes, I know, that's a hard statement for all the fine sax players, but the coolness-factor of a bass clarinetist is more than double a sax player. The reason? It's a very seldom instrument - especially in Europe and it sounds like a sax but more subtle.

I would recommend (like others) to stay in progress with the Bb and only to increase your spectrum with the bass clarinet. It's not so easy to learn, but it's worth every painful minute.

Remark: Frst time your embouchure will be to hard for the bass. But if you learn to weak it well, you will be grow on the Bb too ;-)

Do it!

kindly
Roman
 
Re saxplayer1004's post, I think I need to clarify. I don't recommend a very firm position to never compromise (although that's one possibility). The OP just asked some questions that no one can really answer for him. I mean, others can give suggestions and try to help, but without knowing him it's very hard to really recommend. In the end, only he can TRUELY know what he want to do.

For example, long time ago I decided I wanted to play clarinet (I was about 6). I went to the first conservatorium and the people there, experienced musicians and teachers, said I'm too small and can only learn other instruments. I could follow this advice of great musicians and teachers, but instead we searched more and found a teacher who was willing to teach me clarinet. So this is what I recommend, to follow your passion and what you want instead of a mainstream formula.
 
Regardless of the advice given above, one thing to keep in mind is that a "career" in music is a lot different from a "career" doing anything else (outside of the arts). One (using the passive voice here) should not get so meshed so early into something like music or some other art to the extent that they exclude other approaches to life.

Trying to "bring home the bacon" later in life, when your family isn't there to provide food and shelter, is a lot easier if you do not get totally lapped into playing any musical instrument. The arts are very popular for the simple reason that they are - well - very popular. (I can speak from experience that bass clarinet playing - hell, even alto clarinet playing - is a lot more enjoyable than working the teeming aisle in a steel mill.) If you find yourself seeking a musical career to provide for you and your future family, you may be making a very big mistake.

Most of us here have a lot of fun (and some of us make some nice extra money) while playing our horns, but without doing it for a living. You can play all of the Mozart or Coltraine or Hole you like in your spare time.

I was a bit of a phenom on the bass clarinet, having started on that instrument, moved to soprano, and then moved back to bass again. Top marks at contests, sought after by the All-whatever bands, even playing in the All-County Orchestra while attending a school that didn't have an orchestra. Yet, the sage words of the music director at my school district always stuck with me: "Get a real job, and play for fun."

Others scoff at this and have pursued advanced degrees in music. But, all that I have known who followed that route still live semi-hand to mouth existences. Me, I prefer to have medical insurance, a nice house, no student loans, a comfortable retirement, and a new car every five years or so.

One other thing: when you learn to play bass clarinet, use a regular clarinet method book for your practice materials (if not for the method; there are some different exercises that you should follow for the bass). Limiting yourself to playing concert band and entry level orchestral music will hamper your ability to handle the Firebird or The Sorcerer's Apprentice or "On The Trail" from the Grand Canyon Suite when they come along
 
Practicing the bass clarinet

I second SOTSDO's advice about the music to use when practicing the bass clarinet. Along with my community band gig, I play with a small clarinet trio (soon to be a quartet, we hope), and I've been working up some clarinet duets with one of the players. They weren't written for bass clarinet, and are sometimes a struggle, but my technique is improving by leaps and bounds.

But I sure wish I had my own bass clarinet. There's no way I can afford to put several hundred dollars into a horn owned by the local high school, and I'm tired of fighting with it.
 
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