Vintage Saxophone Pricing Guide

[clarnibass]

I can tell you local prices based on what customers told me they paid or that I know about the sale. Mark VI tenor is pretty common here. Other old models are not as common but there are sometimes many. This is all from the last few years. I'm using approx current exchange rate though some of those saxophoes were sold by a $US price. All saxophones I mention were sold to players who play those saxophones.

Cheapest Mark VI tenor, 1958, condition 2, original silver plated, later nickel plated over silver plate, bought for $2,000.

Most expensive Mark VI tenor, not sure what year but it's 5-sigit SN. Condition I'd say 5 it was new and almost never played, still like new when it was bought (I think was overhauled after it was sold by the player). Original silver plate. $10,000.

For more realistic average. I use e.g. condition 2.5 when it's under average playing condition, and maybe less lacquer, but it's definitely not "bad shape".

11xxxx Mark VI tenor, lacquer body now gone, keys silver or nickel, condition when sold 2.5, sold for approx $4200.

18xxxx Mark VI tenor, lacquer body, silver or nickel keys, condition 3, sold for $4,500.

Mark VI tenor later 6-digit, lacquer body and keys, condition 3, sold for $3,500.

Conn New Wonder Series II tenor, silver plated, condition 2-3, $2,500.

This is what I remember. I don't write down the price of what people paid for their instruments so it's only what I can remember.

In addition there are some old pro saxophones listed on our second hand website. It's not an auction website, just for sale. Condition based on description, which sometimes is missing.

Buescher 400 baritone, condition 3, lacquered, $1,200.

Conn 10M Naked Lady tenor, $2,500.

Conn Naked Lady alto, supposedly after an overhal, $1,150.

Martin The Martin baritone, supposedly after an overhal, looks silver plated but unclear from photos, $1,800.

Mark VI tenor, lacquered, supposedly after an overhaul, 16xxxx SN, $6,300.

Martin The Martin tenor, 1951, lacquered, condition 3, $4,050.

King Silversonic tenor (I think without silver neck), supposedly condition 4, $3,400.

 

[Al Stevens]

I think you disagreed then agreed with me, Al .

I noticed that, too, after I posted. It gets worse as you get older.

Remember that I said that that not-perfect lacquer 6-digit VI sold for $14K while a 5-digit gold-plated VI sold for $8K. It's definitely something to think about.

There will always be anecdotal evidence with which we can make our points. But they are just that. We have to take a broader view.

You've really got me more interested in the process than the results. (Not so interested that I want to work on it, though. I can only talk the talk.)

A vintage sax pricing guide serves two constituencies. If I am buying, it should tell me the most I should have to pay. If I am selling, it should tell me the least I can expect to collect. Items outside that range should be considered exceptional until their numbers approach the norm at which time they influence the range, and the guide changes.

There are three basic sources for data. Ebay, private sales, and dealer sales. My guess is that any one of them alone delivers a different scale of prices. Ebay is the auction mentality where you compete with the world to pay a dollar more for something than anyone else is willing to pay. Private sales are based on the dynamics of motivated sellers and buyers. "I need the cash." "I gotta have that horn." Dealers often patiently stock inventory waiting for someone to walk in (or log in) and meet their price.

How do you weight these scales? How do you collect the data?

If you can achieve these objectives, you've done us all a service. As long as you realize that you have to maintain the guide to reflect current trends. And in today's roller-coaster economy, that's quite a job.

By the way, I have a Silversonic tenor, too. I don't think I'm going to try to rate it.

 

[pete]

There are three basic sources for data. Ebay, private sales, and dealer sales. My guess is that any one of them alone delivers a different scale of prices. Ebay is the auction mentality where you compete with the world to pay a dollar more for something than anyone else is willing to pay. Private sales are based on the dynamics of motivated sellers and buyers. "I need the cash." "I gotta have that horn." Dealers often patiently stock inventory waiting for someone to walk in (or log in) and meet their price.

How do you weight these scales? How do you collect the data?

I explained this more in-depth in my 2006 article, but I'm essentially looking for closed eBay ads with pictures and dealer ads from respected dealers with pictures.

No pictures = "I can't really tell the condition."

On a different thread, I mentioned that dealers aren't charging much, if any, over and beyond eBay and you get a lot more bang for your buck if you use a dealer. Like -- in most cases -- the ability to send the thing back if it isn't as advertised.

Considering I can't have a perfect world, I can only go by the data I can collect. It'd be nice if there was a consistency involve, but there isn't, so I have to say, for instance, "Here's the average for an average to great horn. On a good day, and if everything else is going your way, you MIGHT get $14K. But count on the $4K number."

 

[pete]

Well, then. Let's talk tenors.

* Again, condition doesn't matter as far as the OVERALL average price goes, provided the horn is in condition 3 or better, but there are now relatively clear ceilings on how much, with only a couple exceptions. I'll try to put that into numerical form, which might be more helpful and might answer some of Al's objections. However, please also note that this "maximum ceiling" doesn't start until the horn is what I classify as a 3: there are too many variations in lower-condition horns, so Itried to come up with a general average.

* There is a DISTINCT difference in values between 5- and 6-digit serial number horns.

==========

1, MAXIMUM ceiling: $3000
2, MAXIMUM ceiling: $3500
3, MAXIMUM ceiling: $4900 (from this point on, add $2000 for a 5-digit horn)
4, MAXIMUM ceiling: $6900
5, MAXIMUM ceiling: $8400

Maximum overall, 5-digit: $10,095 (see? The $2K number just about works). Maximum overall, 6-digit: $8,433
Minimum overall, 5-digit: $3000. Minimum overall, 6-digit: $1899 (condition 3, in both cases: yes, some horns in worse condition sold for better $).

Average, 5-digit: $6789
Average, 6-digit: $4213
Average, overall: $4669

Two-Tone (lacquer, nickel keywork): No change.
Two-Tone (lacquer, silver-plated keywork): No change.
Colored Lacquer: ? (no data).
Nickel Plate: ? (no data).
Silver Plate: +10% (yup; about the same as before)
Gold Plate: +30% (not many examples, but they weren't averaging very high).
Relacquer: -35%.
Altissimo F#: Not enough data. Probably no change.

I can probably massage the numbers a bit more, later, but this looks nice.

 

[pete]

Let's finish up the Mark VI pricing:

* Sopranino: I found all of ONE. Fortunately, it was in condition 4. Unfortunately, it was a very late horn, close to S80-age. $2653.

* Straight soprano: A few. High (and in perfect shape, a 5) of $3196. Low of $2049 (delacquered, but overhauled: 3). Average: $2617. One silver plate horn in condition 4, but not worth more or less than other 4s.

* Bass: Only two. Both in condition 4. Both lacquer. One 5-digit at $11696 and one 6-digit (and close to S80-age) at $6537. That's an average of $9116.

* Baritone: A few. However, we've got one issue: most are in condition 3. So I'll do a break-down:

2, MAXIMUM ceiling: $3061
3, MAXIMUM ceiling: $4500
4, MAXIMUM ceiling: $5500

AVERAGE: $4161.

Low A adds approximately 20% to the value. Silver plate does seem to add approximately 10%, but I need a bigger sample size to tell for sure. However, I like the 10% number.

Please also note that the myth of 5-digit horns being better than 6-digit horns is generally an alto and tenor phenomenon (and there were "officially" only Mark VII altos and tenors). As a "for instance" -- and I remember these horns; they were in virtually identical beat-up condition 2 -- a 241xxx bari was $3061 and a 79xxx bari was $2850.