Which reeds for tárogáto?

PrincessJ said:
Yes, however, as you said, after about a 5 to 10 minute warm up. Generally easier with a 2.5 or 3 reed. B seems to be the limit with a 3.5.
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OK, I just tried the Legere Signature Bb clarinet reed #2.5. I love it. It's very consistent.

Here is a quick video I just shot. Any issues are 100% operator error. The reed is a bit harder than I'm used to, so it tends to go sharp on me where the 1.0 - 1.5 didn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_T5lHtAXA

George
 
Gheorghe said:
The person I asked for advice, and who provided it, is Stephen Fox. It was via private email exchange for which I am grateful, and I do not wish to misquote him here. I can tell you this: the modification made an unusable instrument usable, and he was right on the money with his advice.

We can theorize all we want about what happened to my instrument, thought I did not come here to argue or second guess the modifications I made. Sometimes theory is theory, and I needed action.

The bottom line is: I needed to get it into a working condition quickly, and there was nobody around to do the work. It didn't play in pitch, and now it does. Period. I've fitted various mouthpieces with different volumes before I made the changes, and like I said, it still did not bring the 2End octave up to pitch. The difference was close to 0. I did not make the decision to modify the bore carelessly.

Again, I am looking forward to your feedback on your taragot, once you receive it!

George
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Well, Fox is definitely a real expert, and you are to be congratulated for making such a delicate adjustment successfully. In thinking about it, I doubt that the mpc volume changes possible would correct the register discrepancy you describe. I do suggest that--if you have a chance--you see if you can play higher on a different instrument, which would go a long way toward localizing the problem.

I certainly look forward to getting my taragot and becoming more than a spectator here! BTW did you see the instrument just listed on eBay. Gorgeous old Hungarian taragot, very very tempting. Unfortunately without 2nd octave vent or fork F fingering, but still....

Do check to see that your upper vent is clear. That is in the area where you made your mod and something may be clogging it.
 
kymarto said:
Well, Fox is definitely a real expert, and you are to be congratulated for making such a delicate adjustment successfully. In thinking about it, I doubt that the mpc volume changes possible would correct the register discrepancy you describe. I do suggest that--if you have a chance--you see if you can play higher on a different instrument, which would go a long way toward localizing the problem.

I certainly look forward to getting my taragot and becoming more than a spectator here! BTW did you see the instrument just listed on eBay. Gorgeous old Hungarian taragot, very very tempting. Unfortunately without 2nd octave vent or fork F fingering, but still....

Do check to see that your upper vent is clear. That is in the area where you made your mod and something may be clogging it.
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Wow, a Stowasser - the real thing. Very nice, but for that money, you are right, I want that f-fork.

This one looks identical to the one I have. http://www.ebay.com/itm/tárogató-wo..._Instruments&hash=item231655b4a4#ht_500wt_922
I bought mine in person from a Hungarian gentleman, who had a custom case made for it 10 years ago. Now I wonder if my instrument is Romanian also:).

My upper vent is clean - I took all hardware off, including octave keys and vents, before messing with the bore, and i cleaned the vents also.

The other instrument I have, which is 100% a Timis, had a piece of lamb skin blocking one of the bottom holes where a pad was missing from the key. THAT instrument was literally unplayable, but it is now after I rep added it and made a new mouthpiece. Then 2nd octave plays sharper than my main one's did before I altered it.

By the way, I could have gotten lucky with my mod, but I certainly was nervous making that change. I am glad it works now.

George
 
I would have been nervous too. I make Japanese shakuhachi flutes, where the bore is hand formed. It is amazing: sometimes fairly large changes have no apparent effect, other times a little change and boom! some note goes totally bad. And that has basically a cylindrical bore, where changes are less critical than with conical instruments.

But with shakuhachi-- in which the bore is made with a kind of stone putty, you can always add back and try again.

Yes, there is a Stowasser there, but also an old old Hungarian instrument--presently at $350 but sure to go higher. I tried $500 but that is under the reserve. It's by one of the famous Hungarian factories and looks beautifully made, but no 2nd octave key or fork F, and my wife will have my head or other body parts if I buy a 2nd taragot...
 
kymarto said:
I would have been nervous too. I make Japanese shakuhachi flutes, where the bore is hand formed. It is amazing: sometimes fairly large changes have no apparent effect, other times a little change and boom! some note goes totally bad. And that has basically a cylindrical bore, where changes are less critical than with conical instruments.
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Which is specifically why I'm attracted to working on conical instruments!
I've hand formed a couple bores and the art of it is incredibly tedious, but it's an interesting learning experience, it's almost as if one can't understand the true nature of a certain bore until one attempts to mold it themselves.

Gorgeous set of panpipes, Gheorghe. I used to own a set but much smaller. I always wanted to try making some, but chickened out later figuring I probably couldn't play them well anyways.
 
PrincessJ said:
Which is specifically why I'm attracted to working on conical instruments!
I've hand formed a couple bores and the art of it is incredibly tedious, but it's an interesting learning experience, it's almost as if one can't understand the true nature of a certain bore until one attempts to mold it themselves.

Gorgeous set of panpipes, Gheorghe. I used to own a set but much smaller. I always wanted to try making some, but chickened out later figuring I probably couldn't play them well anyways.
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Thank you. I've made maybe 10-12 over the years. The nai is where I learned to double and triple tongue - no reed in the way.

As far as the reed preference, I was able to squeak out the high A easier with the legere 2.5 reed, though I don't show that in the video above. However, it wasn't a huge improvement in that regard. What I like about the plastic reed is that it's ready to play right away, feels more consistent than the cane.

George
 
There's been a lot of controversy on the plastic reeds. I've never been brave enough to try one, I'm supposing perhaps for the tárogató it may have more benefits than for the clarinet, and obviously they last much longer as well.
 
PrincessJ said:
There's been a lot of controversy on the plastic reeds. I've never been brave enough to try one, I'm supposing perhaps for the tárogató it may have more benefits than for the clarinet, and obviously they last much longer as well.
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I don't see any issues, but then I'm only a beginner. Like I said, the Transylvanian taragot style calls for softer reeds, softer than the plastic reeds, which start at 2.0 I believe. I'll continue practicing with it, but eventually I will probably end up back with a regular cane 1.5.

George
 
kymarto said:
Yes, there is a Stowasser there, but also an old old Hungarian instrument--presently at $350 but sure to go higher. I tried $500 but that is under the reserve. It's by one of the famous Hungarian factories and looks beautifully made, but no 2nd octave key or fork F, and my wife will have my head or other body parts if I buy a 2nd taragot...
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Kymarto,

The more I think about it, the more I wanna know exactly where my instrument came from. Like I said, it looks identical to this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/tárogató-woo...4#ht_500wt_922

The seller is in Romania, and I see the famous "Timis" box in the pictures, but it looks like the seller himself does not know the exact origin.

In other words, I'm wondering if what I have is really a better version of Timis:) I was under the impression until now that it was made in Hungary. There are no markings on it, other than the number "13" etched on the inside of one of the rings. I saw this when I had everything apart to fix cracks and shim all rings.

George
 
PrincessJ said:
Almost looks like one of these.

http://www.11thmuse.com/BouklasPictures.html
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Only in the type of wood. The one pictured at 11muse lacks the Eb left pinky key. Also, no marking on the body itself.

Also, the description of the octave keys is wrong. As mentioned earlier, the 2nd octave key also opens the 1st. You cannot just open the 2nd one and not the first.

I keep mentioning this, due to my lack of formal Bb instrument training: when he says "from D to G#, use the 1st key...", does he mean D that is written for Bb instruments, or does he mean a true concert D? In other words, is he referring to the note achieved when 6 fingers are down, or the one played when the RH ring finger is up?

Pardon my ignorance.
George
 
Gheorghe said:
Only in the type of wood. The one pictured at 11muse lacks the Eb left pinky key. Also, no marking on the body itself.

Also, the description of the octave keys is wrong. As mentioned earlier, the 2nd octave key also opens the 1st. You cannot just open the 2nd one and not the first.

I keep mentioning this, due to my lack of formal Bb instrument training: when he says "from D to G#, use the 1st key...", does he mean D that is written for Bb instruments, or does he mean a true concert D? In other words, is he referring to the note achieved when 6 fingers are down, or the one played when the RH ring finger is up?

Pardon my ignorance.
George
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Aha. It's alright.
Usually we speak in terms of music written for the key of the instrument. So in other words, if the instance is normal, I believe he means D written for Bb, also judging by his description of the fingering.
 
PrincessJ said:
Aha. It's alright.
Usually we speak in terms of music written for the key of the instrument. So in other words, if the instance is normal, I believe he means D written for Bb, also judging by his description of the fingering.
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Ok, then that does make a bit of a difference. I have no trouble playing the high "A" on the tárogató. It's the high "Bb", or "H" if you're European, that gives me trouble (880 Hz note). I can get it about 50% of the time.

Since I play with other musicians (violin, viola, double bass, cimbalom, accordion), I refer to standard concert notes, not Bb-notation.

Well I feel a little better then.

George
 
That's great actually!
As I said earlier in several set-ups I find upper B to be my limit as far as tonal altitude. It's partly the mouthpiece's fault, too, it's not very friendly to my embouchure at times. I don't often come across instances in which such high notes are necessary, anyways, and figure, if I don't truly need them, why bother. It's still nice to practice, though.
 
Gheorghe said:
Only in the type of wood. The one pictured at 11muse lacks the Eb left pinky key. Also, no marking on the body itself.

Also, the description of the octave keys is wrong. As mentioned earlier, the 2nd octave key also opens the 1st. You cannot just open the 2nd one and not the first.

I keep mentioning this, due to my lack of formal Bb instrument training: when he says "from D to G#, use the 1st key...", does he mean D that is written for Bb instruments, or does he mean a true concert D? In other words, is he referring to the note achieved when 6 fingers are down, or the one played when the RH ring finger is up?

Pardon my ignorance.
George
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The one pictured looks exactly like the one I have: same keys, same quality of wood, except that mine has the plateau keys instead of two rings on the bottom. I think Chris was wrong in the description of the octave keys: all the standard double-octave key ones open both holes when the upper key is pressed; it takes quite a rather more complex mechanism to close the bottom vent when the top vent is open, and this horn does not have it.

When there is mention of fingerings, it is almost always not concert pitch, so D refers to all six fingers down, and G# to three LH + G# key.

Beautiful work on the panpipes, BTW. I'm not much of a player, but I have a decent set of Korean ones.
 
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