Alert: Stolen Bass Sax - $1500 reward offered

[Gandalfe]

We've just received this from Benedikt:
"<name removed> borrowed my Eppelsheim bass saxophone and did not return it. The engraving on the bell is "Eppelsheim Munchen" and the serial number (stamped in the bottom of the main tube) is "52". If someone finds it, the reward of $1500 will be paid when I have the bass sax in my possession in Munich.

Anyone who buys or sells this instrument is guilty of fraud. Lawful ownership of this bass saxophone #52 is not possible at this time."
Benedikt has made a report to the Munich polizei.

This alert has also been posted at the Bass Sax Coop, The Bis Key Chronicles, SotW, and on the UseNet, alt.music.saxophone. Help us find this sax. Thanks everyone.

[saxmanglen]

What a royal bummer! :-(


Who is this "Benedikt"?

[pete]

Who is this "Benedikt"?
Benedikt Eppelsheim.

[Dave Dolson]

Glen: The owner/designer of the Epplesheim saxophones is named Benedikt Epplesheim. Probably the composer of the theft message is the same guy, but it is not clear.

Again, my curious/suspicious nature is at work here. I don't know the details, but in many places, the failure to return borrowed property isn't necessarily a crime until and unless some very specific criteria is met. I assume there is much more to the story than is posted here.

Of course, any attempt by the borrower to sell such an item would be fraudulent even if there was no original theft involved. As to the buyer committing a crime, well . . . that depends on the buyer's knowledge and intent. Good luck in proving that - anywhere. DAVE

[Gandalfe]

Benedikt Eppelsheim made this report.

Dave, if someone purchases a stolen instrument, that instrument when/if found will be returned to the correct owner in most cases right?

[saxmanglen]

Thanks for clarifying.

Those horns are all above my pocket book. Perhaps that explains my ignorance in NOT knowing his first name. Nah.....I'm just an idiot! :grin:

[pete user test]

Not a problem.

Gandalfe OWNS an Eppelsheim horn. And it's a custom one, at that -- so he's had more than a couple e-mail exchanges with Mr. E.

I've also had some e-mail conversations with Mr. E, but I don't think we're on a first-name basis :).

Hope he gets the horn back, tho.

[Dave Dolson]

Gandalfe: Yes, generally. I suppose different jurisdictions have different rules, but generally speaking, the seller, if he knows the property is not his or was stolen would be committing a crime almost everywhere if he sold it knowing it wasn't his.

The buyer may be innocent of criminal charges (knowledge is critical), but the buyer rarely if ever has legal ownership regardless of his intent (NOT knowing the item was stolen or not the property of the seller). When the item's true owner is discovered, the item goes back to its owner. The buyer then eats the loss unless he can seek civil redress. And, if the buyer's knowledge can be proven, he too faces criminal charges. DAVE

[saxismyaxe]

It's a pretty small community of sax players who would buy this horn, and for the kind of money one would assume it would fetch even on the black market, albeit significantly lower than the sticker price. It isn't exactly conveniently sized to smuggle across national borders or ship either, so the presumption is that the thief intends to sell within reasonably close proximity.

I'm wondering if the buyer wasn't lined up PRIOR to the theft, like so many art heists that take place. The perpetrator doesn't seem that swift or organized however.

I have to say, one look at that beat up drivers license, and I would have demanded a full value deposit.:rolleyes:

[Merlin]

What actually IS MSRP on an Eppie Bass?

[pete]

http://www.saxophones.co.uk/acatalog/Xtreme_saxes_by_Benedikt_Eppelsheim.html

"Our Price (excluding vat): £10,297.88 (£12,100.01 Including VAT at 17.5%)". That's $20,288 per xe.com.

On a low Bb model.

[Gandalfe]

The quoted price is for a new instrument and this one was used. Plus, since it's hot, the would most likely be an additional discount. Benedikt expects it to go somewhere in Europe. But you never know.

(Seriously, how many Benedikt's do you know?) :twisted:

[tictactux]

(Seriously, how many Benedikt's do you know?) :twisted:
<raises hand>

[pete]

I know of a guy with the last name of "Arnold". Different spelling of the first name, IIRC ....

[saxmanglen]

(Seriously, how many Benedikt's do you know?) :twisted:

Does the Pope count? :oops:

[Gandalfe]

Does the Pope count? :oops:Now that's funny. I can totally see the pope with a bass sax. 8-)

[tictactux]

Now that's funny. I can totally see the pope with a bass sax. 8-)
Can you see me with one? (hint, hint, nudge, nudge)

[saxmanglen]

Now that's funny. I can totally see the pope with a bass sax. 8-)

I'm going to keep checking back to see the photshoped image of THAT showing up. :grin:

[saxismyaxe]

I'm going to keep checking back to see the photshoped image of THAT showing up. :grin:

Here you go.

The second one is the Pope introducing "I Only Have Eyes For You".;)

[Helen]

Here you go.

The second one is the Pope introducing "I Only Have Eyes For You".;)

You're killin' me...:lol:

[saxhound]

His Holiness needs to loosen up his embouchure!

[pete]

Does the Pope count? :oops:
Jim, the proper response to this is, "No, but he's working on it. After a few lessons, he'll be fine."

Regardless or religious affiliation, JP II seemed like an interesting guy. I know virtually nothing about Benedict.

[tictactux]

His Holiness needs to loosen up his embouchure!
Indeed. In many respects.

[saxmanglen]

http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16&d=1214489669

I knew I could illicit some photo shop work.

ROFL :-D:-D:-D

This is Hilarius.

Thanks Saxismyaxe.

[Groovekiller]

I love it. With every respect to my Catholic friends, there's nothing like some low power for the higher power. Bach would be supportive. You'll notice that the Vatican gets the good stuff.

[Gandalfe]

And it looks like he has a light touch to the keyworks too. 8-)

[Helen]

I don't know if any of you have been on the Eppelsheim website since this happened, but the Herr Eppelsheim did have a page put up (http://www.eppelsheim.com/wanted.php?lang=en) specifically for the horn only a day or 2 after it was announced here and on the Bass Sax Co-op. Originally the Eppelsheim site listed the horn as "borrowed", and also had a copy of the "borrowers" ID. This page now has been changed. The ID and guy's name have been removed, and the horn is now listed as "stolen".

Since Herr Eppelsheim has been working with the Munich police, which he wrote also extends to how he advertised the theft and reward, presumably something has happened to change the status from borrowed to stolen. Does anyone here know for sure?

[Gandalfe]

The police have asked him to remove the ID and name from the announcements. Most of us have been notified and done the same. I'm not sure I agree with that strategy, but the sax is unique and will be found... sometime.

[Gandalfe]

An update from Benedikt: I did not expect it at all but my bass saxophone has been found in a second hand jewelery store in Munich. The store had bought it for 1100 Euros. They thought the price was too high, so they researched and found the stolen bass announcement on the Internet only a few days later. So they reported it to the police. I thank you all for your support!

[Helen]

That's great news!!!! Good for the store. Nice to see that level of honesty. It is almost rare now a days.

Wow...Thinks that 1100 Euros was too much...Mmm...Definitely not a musician, and doesn't have a kid in music either. :???:

[Dave Dolson]

I have no knowledge of the details concerning this matter, but like I initially said, to convert the rental or borrowing of property to a crime (theft or fraudulent conversion - whatever a local jurisdiction may legally call it) is not automatic. That conversion from a civil transaction to a criminal act requires some hoops to be jumped.

I'd imagine that selling to a third person a borrowed or rented item may be one easy hoop to jump in converting from civil to criminal in any jurisdiction. I'm glad the saxophone was located. DAVE