hot topics policy [Archive] - The Woodwind Forum

pete

01-25-2009, 05:21 AM

Actually, it has been my experience that if someone says that he's wondering which topics SHOULDN'T be discussed, he probably has something in mind :D.

Anyhow,

* As a rule of thumb, as long as the post isn't illegal (includes libel, by the way), it's discussable, here.
* Please don't ask, in a thread, who has been banned or why. Bannees have been known to throw up lawsuits for that. If you have a "need" to know, contact Ed, Jim or me to APPLY to be a Content Expert.
* There is a particular dealer/manufacturer -- not who you think -- that we had some issues with on SOTW a LONG time ago and, while discussions of his products aren't banned, we keep a close eye on 'em.
* I think there's a comment that all posts/topics should be "suitable for work". In other words, keep it PG-rated.
* Don't use too much profanity. Again, keep it PG rated. (If you get Scarface Syndrome -- rent the movie, if you have no idea what I'm talking about -- the admin staff will delete your post and have a chat with you.)

Again, the above would be kind-of a "rule of thumb". I don't want to start writing out specific instances of things you can't say/do, because that's counterproductive: someone will try to be a lawyer (no offense to the lawyers) and say, "Well, Pete didn't mention $topic, so I can discuss it and can't be banned! Neener, neener!"

As it says in the official rules (http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721), "Be nice".

Carl, if you're gonna post pics of Goodson in his RED suit with the PURPLE bari, it's been done before. :P

I haven't had anyone report the post you mention, though. My opinion is that this isn't a political forum and if it's a non-sax post/thread, it gets deleted at WF staff discretion.

(BTB, I'll move this thread into the FAQ area ....)

Carl H.

01-25-2009, 05:25 AM

Hmmm,,, red suit...

I was thinking more along the lines of the wrinkled pink suit.:???:

pete

01-25-2009, 05:27 AM

Nah. Haven't seen that.

FWIW, if the picture(s) are copyrighted, make sure you get permission from the copyright owner before you post -- or that you're using them in accordance with US/international "fair use" clauses in the copyright law.

Yes, I'm serious.

Gandalfe

01-25-2009, 05:28 PM

Yeah I saw someone's comment relating to a presidential administration and thought, do we have to go there? If we give definitive rules on how to behave, there will always be someone pressing to see where the limits are. So it would appear we are just a bit laid back here on purpose but if someone really steps out of line, we'll be forced to take care of the situation.

Merlin

01-25-2009, 06:23 PM

Helen

01-25-2009, 06:29 PM

If anyone starts going on about BO...I'll start regaling them with tales of the Canadian political landscape.

That's the ticket Merlin. That'll put them to sleep for sure, and we won't have to worry about further discussion. Narcolepsy as the cure. Brilliant! ;-)

Heckelphone

01-25-2009, 10:11 PM

Some forums (fora?) simply set aside a section for completely off-topic threads, and shunt threads into that section when they begin to seriously diverge from the forum topic. Of course, someone still has to keep an eye on those, so that they don't completely degenerate, but everyone likes such an outlet sometimes :grin:

Tammi

01-26-2009, 02:28 AM

I believe they call that area the Lounge.

Ed Svoboda

01-26-2009, 04:33 AM

Generally speaking I would prefer that we all keep on the topics of the given areas. If you can throw in some interesting and intelligent remark and no one says boo to me then no problems. If someone goes off on politics or religion then that's going to cause friction.

I'd rather concentrate on the things that bring us together than the things that drive us apart.

And if I never see the picture of the naked guy holding the bari sax I will be quite happy. I don't need to explain that to my seven year old. I also would not want to sear that image into such a young mind. Let's wait until he is old enough to cruise the internet on his own.

pete

01-26-2009, 04:35 AM

Yah. The Lounge.

When Ed, Jim and I started the WF, we discussed havening a "Lounge" area like on SOTW. While I like the idea, in general, you can see that it got way too out of hand over there.

So, we all lean toward, "This is a saxophone forum. Post about sax. If you post about something else, it may get deleted."

As always, there's the little http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif icon you can click if you see something that's out-of-line.

Now, while I really do enjoy banning people and deleting stuff, what I try to do (and Jim really does a lot of, too) is try to promote community here. I tend to think that a political discussion is almost by definition disharmonious. Ed's got a degree in something political, IIRC, so y'all can be overwhelmed by his brilliance if you get too far :).

So far, we've really had little problem. I really just want to stick to the, "Play nice and respect the Admins/CEs" rule and not have to really set other rules in stone.

(Believe it or not, I've generally been the one -- both here and on SOTW -- to not ban people. That's bitten me a couple times, but I want to believe some folks straighten out after talking with 'em.)

saxismyaxe

01-26-2009, 10:01 AM

Hot Topic area? Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch.........:D
Seriously, don't do it, not for a minute. Don't even mention it again if you know what is good for you, mark my words! ;)

Al Stevens

01-26-2009, 04:52 PM

Generally speaking I would prefer that we all keep on the topics of the given areas.
The WF equivalent of the "Lounge" seems to be "General Discussion," which hosts, "Posts that concern multiple or general woodwind issues or other topics tolerated at the whim of Ed ..." [emphasis added]

"Hot Topics" was an experiment that seems to have succeeded in the views of most members and failed in the views of most moderators. Actually, as an experiment, it succeeded, because everyone learned something from it. Not all experiments teach you what you want to learn.

Al Stevens

01-26-2009, 04:59 PM

pete

01-26-2009, 10:35 PM

> when you do delete somthing or sanction someone for cause, figure a way to let the membership know that it happened and why.
Al, that ain't gonna happen. I think I've already mentioned that there are webmasters that have been sued because they've posted something like, "$Idiot was banned because he did $something_idiotic".

If there happens to be a thread where cuts are needed, the people that have posted in the thread will be contacted, because they're the ones that should be concerned about that thread. If a minor edit needs to be done for whatever reason, you'll see a note in the post.

If it's spam, it just disappears. I see no reason to contact anyone about that, other than the fact that we keep a copy of it so we know WHY someone was banned.

"All other topics tolerated at the whim of Ed" (yes, I wrote that) means, "If it's non-sax, it probably won't be here for very long. Unless one of the WF staff deem that it's interesting enough or has some relation to us." It's a nice way of saying, "We're gonna be laid back about it, but find another forum for off-topic stuff."

=========

The "Hot Topics" experiment on SOTW was a mistake. They have too many users from too many places and too many age groups to have a completely non-moderated area. Again, I like the idea of havening a place to kick back and discuss non-woodwind stuff with other people that share something in common with you (i.e. music), but I have no desire to moderate such an area 24/7.

While a lounge/off-topic area might work better here because most of our members are professional or retired professional musicians of one sort or another, I'd still argue against having one.

One of my "functions" here, at the moment, is to listen to suggestions from Jim or Ed (and the Staff, when they make 'em) and come up with reasons WHY they won't work -- that kinda "happened"; I didn't volunteer for that. Yes, I have no problems being overruled or being proven wrong, but I'd rather be proven wrong without havening to hurt a lot of people's feelings in the process. I not only think, I know that happened with the "Hot Topics" area on SOTW.

Again, to keep the bonsai harmonious and promote proper growth, you must trim branches. Or something like that :).

Al Stevens

01-27-2009, 12:13 AM

"All other topics tolerated at the whim of Ed" (yes, I wrote that) means, "If it's non-sax, it probably won't be here for very long. Unless one of the WF staff deem that it's interesting enough or has some relation to us." It's a nice way of saying, "We're gonna be laid back about it, but find another forum for off-topic stuff."
That's a good thing that you just posted along with the list in post #5. Now we know more about what the statement about whims really means.

The "Hot Topics" experiment on SOTW was a mistake. They have too many users from too many places and too many age groups to have a completely non-moderated area.
It was moderated as I recall. Perhaps the mistake was in thinking it would not need much moderating.

Yes, I have no problems being overruled or being proven wrong, but I'd rather be proven wrong without havening to hurt a lot of people's feelings in the process. I not only think, I know that happened with the "Hot Topics" area on SOTW.I guess that was insider executive session stuff from which the membership is shielded.

Ed Svoboda

01-27-2009, 12:17 AM

To Ed and the other bosses, I would add: Since you prefer to not post rigid rules, which is nice, when you do delete somthing or sanction someone for cause, figure a way to let the membership know that it happened and why.

That way, eventually, your "whims" will become understood and others will come to know where the uncrossable lines are.

Al we are fortunate right now in that we have a wonderful core group of folks. I generally let people know back channel if something had to be deleted. They generally let everyone else know.

Tammi

01-27-2009, 12:21 AM

I like that there is no 'Lounge' here.
I've found that I can get into just as much, or more trouble without it.
I have to remember to not reply to posts that get my hackles up.

pete

01-27-2009, 12:26 AM

I guess that was insider executive session stuff from which the membership is shielded.
No, all you had to do was look at the posts in there of the high percentage of people saying, "Sorry. I'm not going to be posting here, anymore" and a lot of admins posting, "We just cut 3,527 posts from this thread ...."

I haven't been an admin on SOTW for almost four years, I think.

saxismyaxe

01-27-2009, 03:05 AM

What Pete said. Absolutely spot on.

saxhound

01-27-2009, 03:14 AM

My normal BP = 110/70
My BP here = 110/70
My BP at SOTW now = 120/80
My BP when Hot Topics was alive at SOTW = 150/100

My doctor thanks you all! This is a great place to hang out.

Helen

01-27-2009, 05:03 AM

My normal BP = 110/70
My BP here = 110/70
My BP at SOTW now = 120/80
My BP when Hot Topics was alive at SOTW = 150/100

My doctor thanks you all! This is a great place to hang out.

Too funny! But oh so true! :lol:

Dave Dolson

01-27-2009, 05:56 AM

Agreed. DAVE

Al Stevens

01-27-2009, 06:33 AM

I was a moderator on a moderated usenet group for a number of years back in usenet's heyday. I didn't much like the job.

The group was set up to discuss a programming language. Usenet being what it is and computer programmers being what we are, the procedure was simple. No message got posted until a moderator approved it. Unless the message was obvious garbage, we usually notified authors about any problems and allowed them to modify and resubmit the messages.

Another moderator once rejected one of my messages because I said, "ad nauseum, ad infinitum" about someone's repetitive posts. He said ad infinitum would have been okay by itself, but ad nauseum was crossing the line. Just goes to show how far we've come. :)

Even unmoderated usenet worked well for a long time starting back in the 1980s when not everyone had access. Groups self-moderated themselves, and offenders were generally given the bum's rush by the group and folks weren't as tenacious as they are today. Then the internet caught on, someone discovered automatic spam generators, and the whole thing went downhill. Unmoderated usenet is mostly a cesspool now.

I guess this is getting into one of those vague subject matter areas that won't last long. "The medium is the message."

pete

01-27-2009, 04:35 PM

Everyone has a different philosophy, of course, but I decided a long time ago that my purpose in posting was to try to learn something and help people out, if I can. In the former case, I'm not afraid to be wrong and I have been many times.

A lot of people don't like ever admitting being wrong. These people shouldn't post on the internet.

Gandalfe

01-27-2009, 07:57 PM

I'm hard pressed to not learn something every time I read the stack o' stuff here. And I get some great ideas of stuff to play. I am totally NOT into the admin/moderating the WF for the moderation experience any more. I'm more selfish. ;-)

Ed Svoboda

01-27-2009, 10:26 PM

If we were to go with any off topic areas I have to be honest and say that they would be in areas that I have an interest. Things like fountain pens, watches, or personal productivity. Even though I have a degree in Political Science I have no desire to have an off topic group here on that subject.

Again, I'm interested in the things that bring us together as a group rather than those that cause our level of discourse to dissolve into something like those political shows where people try to shout each other down.

kcp

01-28-2009, 05:59 AM

A little bit of history for those whom may not know or need their memories refreshed, and pardon me for butting-in but besides the desire to create a forum where to discuss various woodwind instruments (as opposed to strickly saxophones) and possibly other reasons which I'm unaware of, there is another minor but not to be neglected factor which has contributed to the birth of the Woodwind Forum -- it was an incident which occured in the SOTW "off-topic" Lounge and which led to an obvious difference of oppinions among the forum staff as to what sort of posts should be tolerated in the "off-topic" Lounge and even (to some mild extent) questionning if there should even be an "off-topic" are at all.

This said, sorry Carl I mean no disrespect, but I don't know how one could imagine that there would be a Hot Topic forum in here. It was a crazy experiment that has gone bad over at SOTW and knowing how wize Ed, Jim and Pete are and how they feel about that, I'm pretty certain that they won't do the same mistake as we did over at SOTW.

As for Off-topic posts, well I only have one word of advice: When Ed said no picture of the naked bari guy <-- He means it !! (I don't blame him, tho)

In conclusion and as a personal observation, I find it interesting to see that several members and (some ex-SOTW members) are on their best behavior here... Aha! So you have no excuses then! :twisted: ;)

hakukani

01-28-2009, 08:27 AM

I thought that the hot topics on the other site was worth the experiment.

I learned that there are many people that are thin skinned, and quite narrow minded, from many countries, and with disparate world views.

I was surprised.

I'm happy to keep things non-political here, and no NBSP.

I only object when you can't say 'Obama', or 'Bush' in passing, as if they were curse words.

jbtsax

01-28-2009, 03:50 PM

In conclusion and as a personal observation, I find it interesting to see that several members and (some ex-SOTW members) are on their best behavior here... Aha! So you have no excuses then! :twisted: ;)Kim, it is nice to see that you are checking up on the SOTW expatriates over here at the Woodwind Forum. I'm sure your help is appreciated by the moderators of this group.

John

pete

01-28-2009, 04:14 PM

I just appreciate KCP. She's good people.

FWIW, I went along with this forum because ... I was asked to. Again, I haven't been an admin on SOTW for at least four years and this place is a little over 1 year old, so I had no input on SOTW's "hot topics".

I've actually fought pretty hard *not* to make this place a SOTW or sneezy.org clone. There's no need to clone them when they already exist.

Besides, I hadn't banned anyone for awhile and Ed said I could ban as may people as I wanted, whenever I wanted, so I HAD to get onboard with that.

The biggest difference between the WF and SOTW or other forums is that we've got a LOT of people (CEs) that we've determined have expertise is certain fields. These folks are around to specifically help other members out. We also try to quickly identify the folks that consistently have good advice (Distinguished Members). This difference helps folks sort the wheat from the chaff, as it were, in the posts.

===========

FWIW, neither Bush nor Obama are "curse words". However, I can see context where they could be used as such. If I saw a post where they were used as such, I'd delet 'em. I still haven't found that post ....

Ed Svoboda

01-28-2009, 05:35 PM

I'm happy to see that most people understand what we are trying to be and not to be at WF. To be honest, I am not interested in comparing ourselves and our efforts to any other newsgroup, mailing list, or internet forum. It would surprise me if many people in future generations are all that interested in the minutia of behind the scenes discussions here or anywhere else.

kcp

01-28-2009, 07:57 PM

Kim, it is nice to see that you are checking up on the SOTW expatriates over here at the Woodwind Forum. I'm sure your help is appreciated by the moderators of this group.

John

Oh, they don't need my help. Pete and Ed are more experienced Admins than I. In fact, they thaught me how to.

As for the checking-up on you part goes; hey, don't flatter yourself too much! ;) (just teasing) - For sure tho, seeing you contribute here says that you're not one of those resentful fruit-cakes spreading anger over at the alt-sax group - In other words it's good to see that your knowledge and expertise doesn't go to waste :)

Carl H.

01-29-2009, 05:29 AM

Just for the record here, I am not in favor of a hot topics area. I never posted in it on SOTW and after the first few days I stopped reading anything from there. It was not productive or a pleasant diversion, in fact in my short time observing it several members fell in my estimation, I didn't need that.

I was more interested in a clarification of where the line was so as to know what was allowed and what should get the http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif.

I don't care for personal attacks or gripe sessions aimed at anyone, which is also why I didn't post on those elimination threads. Believe me, there are folks I could go on and on about, but why waste the time and energy?

Merlin

01-29-2009, 05:40 AM

All I ever seem to find anywhere I post is cold topics.

I seem to be a threadkiller...at least on other people's topics.

Carl H.

01-29-2009, 06:21 AM

I guess that's what you get for living in Canadia.:P

Merlin

01-29-2009, 06:25 AM

I guess that's what you get for living in Canadia.:P

I could change your title to Extinguished Member, if'n you like...:twisted:

Carl H.

01-29-2009, 06:36 AM

No joke. In 1989 I was touring Canada and the first place we stopped (for liquid refreshments) the first words out of the first genuine Canadian were "What can I get for you guys eh?"

(I have witnesses)

pete

01-29-2009, 04:36 PM

No, a true Canadian would say, "What kinda donuts can we get you, eh?"

:P

(Tim Horton's, of course.)

kcp

01-29-2009, 08:13 PM

You people got it all wrong, I don't speak like dat and I don't eat donuts... non mais voyons... sheesh! :rolleyes:

pete

01-29-2009, 08:48 PM

I thought you Quebecois wanted to be your own country 'n' stuff....

:P

kcp

01-29-2009, 10:00 PM

now, now, let's not get into politics there, eh!! ;) Besides, like it was said earlier, it'll bore you to death.... zzzzzzzzzz

Merlin

01-29-2009, 10:49 PM

now, now, let's not get into politics there, eh!! ;) Besides, like it was said earlier, it'll bore you to death.... zzzzzzzzzz

I think the whole separatist thing freaks out people in the US. They had a civil war already, so they probably figure we're due for one. We know that's not the way things work here.

retread

01-29-2009, 11:47 PM

Free Quebec. And if that's not convenient, how about free beer?

tictactux

01-30-2009, 01:05 AM

I think the whole separatist thing freaks out people in the US. They had a civil war already, so they probably figure we're due for one. We know that's not the way things work here.

Pffft. Bilingual countries...amateurs... :twisted:

No, I won't go into politics. But people had better settled such affairs peacefully. One could spend money and labour better elsewhere than on challenged pride.

Merlin

01-30-2009, 01:39 AM

Pffft. Bilingual countries...amateurs... :twisted:

No, I won't go into politics. But people had better settled such affairs peacefully. One could spend money and labour better elsewhere than on challenged pride.

Funny thing is, the only time I was in Switzerland, I couldn't find anyone who would speak Italian. However, in Austria, I got free drinks that way!

tictactux

01-30-2009, 01:51 AM

Funny thing is, the only time I was in Switzerland, I couldn't find anyone who would speak Italian. However, in Austria, I got free drinks that way!

Next time you're in Zurich, honk. I'll offer you a beer. Promised.

Heck, I offer a beer (or wine, even pop soda, anything as long as it isn't Carlsberg) to any WWF regular showing up here. Bring an instrument if you're here on a Thursday.

<still wondering why the Austrians would offer free drinks to a Canadian pretending to speak Italian>

Merlin

01-30-2009, 01:56 AM

Next time you're in Zurich, honk. I'll offer you a beer. Promised.

Heck, I offer a beer (or wine, even pop soda, anything as long as it isn't Carlsberg) to any WWF regular showing up here. Bring an instrument if you're here on a Thursday.

<still wondering why the Austrians would offer free drinks to a Canadian pretending to speak Italian>

It was an Italian resto in Schladming. The guy even offered me an Italian newspaper to read.

tictactux

01-30-2009, 01:59 AM

It was an Italian resto in Schladming. The guy even offered me an Italian newspaper to read.

At which point you gave up and simply ordered another Grappa.

Heckelphone

01-30-2009, 05:42 AM

Small world! I'll be heading over to Switzerland in March (business trip -- one of the perks of working for a Swiss company). Conference site on lake Zug. :-D

Grant

AltoRuth

02-09-2009, 05:13 PM

I think I have just stumbled into the WF equivalent of the "Lounge"; it's in the "Forum Rules" section and is called "hot topics policy." :grin:

No, I wasn't looking for a Lounge. But a comment about that from a new member here--I often enjoyed the Lounge on SOTW, but assiduously avoided the Hot Topics. Ultimately, however, it seemed that the threads in the Lounge eventually devolved into "poo" humor (thanks to a member here for that description) punctuated by sexual innuendo and it became way too tedious to wade through that to get to what was at other times excellent information and advice, and great wit and humor. Truly a moderator's nightmare!

I look forward to reading here and learning.
Ruth

steen

02-09-2009, 07:09 PM

I didn't like "The Lounge" at SOTW. I tried to stay away from it. Ironically, my posting there actually made me realize that it was time to leave. I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with off-topic discussion or hot topics. They just take up excess moderator time and therefore are undesirable. The problem with SOTW is IMO not the "strict" rules, but the fact that the moderators either are not able to enforce them due to the size and nature of the membership, which is not their fault, or do so at random, which IS their fault. It is a fair that the founders/owners of a site make decisions at their discretion. However, if you encourage and take donations from members, it is also fair that the members can expect that stated rules are adhered to, be it strictly or laid-back, in the same manner for all members. Also, that you do not reward behavior repeatedly aimed at breaking the rules.

saxplayer1004

02-09-2009, 07:17 PM

key to all of that is to have the members obey the rules, then the moderators don't have to do much of anything. The SOTW lounge is always interesting though, never a dull moment in there.

SOTSDO

02-09-2009, 09:19 PM

However, there are any number of other venues on the Internets in which to get snarky, obscene, or whatever. Those who frequent the musical sites (like those who frequent any "specialist" website) often get offended when the off-putting behavior encouraged in the "off topic" areas spills over into the rest of the operation.

The anonymity of the Internet does tend to bring out the worst in some. Me - well, I may be an asshole in real life (the jury is still out on that), but I try to limit my positions on these websites in the same way that I would (for example) conduct myself with relative strangers that I might be associated with at (for example) a wake at a funeral home.

Some can't do this, using the shield to their personalities that the Internet affords to go hog wild. Their prerogative, of course, but it doesn't tend to endear them to others.

DavyRay

02-10-2009, 03:10 AM

pete

02-10-2009, 03:29 AM

I'm just as glad to not have a Lounge area here. Vague rules about hot topics are okay by me too. You have made a statement that off-topic comments may be tolerated. That's actually pretty clear.

My favorite online rules are "Thou shalt not be excessively annoying.", and "Don't be too easily annoyed". Those were from FidoNET. I used to be a sysop before I found the Internet.
I think you, Steen, and AltoRuth have kind-of gotten our point on the lack of hard-n-fast rules on this forum: they're less restrictive for EVERYONE, but especially for the mods/admin staff. Havening rules that cover every eventuality make for a forum that's not fun to play in -- or administrate. I no longer have to hem and haw over, "Well, this post is probably offensive to 60% of our membership, but it is [woodwind] related ...." I can just say, "This isn't appropriate. I'll have a chat with this user and lock his account until I sort it out."

Hey, I've pointed out the http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif thingy. Y'all can report posts :).

steen

10-28-2009, 05:53 PM

My normal BP = 110/70
My BP here = 110/70
My BP at SOTW now = 120/80
My BP when Hot Topics was alive at SOTW = 150/100

My doctor thanks you all! This is a great place to hang out.

Man, if anyone ever posted something that is right on the money, it has got to be this, except that the SOTW numbers would have to be double in my case.

Al Stevens

10-28-2009, 06:47 PM

It is funny that this thread which became more about another forum should be revived today. I found a recent discussion over there in which a member generally disrespects Pete's saxpics site and specifically the parts dealing with Kings. (I have a Silversonic tenor and read whatever I can find about it.) I thought about ratting the guy out here. Then I decided not to. Oops. I just did. :P

pete

10-28-2009, 08:37 PM

Somewhat less amusingly, an SOTW member e-mailed me about that particular person ("Swingtone", IIRC) a couple days ago, which is the only reason I would have known about it -- I rarely go on SOTW unless I get a PM/e-mail from someone to check out some discussion that he thinks I might be able to assist with.

In any event, I not only responded to Swingtone on SOTW, to try to answer/rebut some of the things he posted (i.e., you've misquoted some serial number ranges I wrote, you missed my point there, I can agree to disagree on that point there, I think you're wrong there, etc.) and to highlight that I no longer own saxpics.com, so I can't update it anymore.

I also sent Swingtone a nice, long PM.

Anyhow, I think I answered the King questions in that thread as best as I could. However, I do not think that my post or PM satisfied Swingtone.

Hey, you can't make everyone happy.

hakukani

10-30-2009, 08:24 AM

Swingtone is the only member of SOTW on my ignore list. 'nuff said.:???:

Groovekiller

10-30-2009, 09:15 AM

Anyhow, I think I answered the King questions in that thread as best as I could. However, I do not think that my post or PM satisfied Swingtone.

Hey, you can't make everyone happy.

Anytime you want to end a discussion like that one, ask the OP to submit the bore measurements that back up his statements.

saxismyaxe

10-30-2009, 03:45 PM

Swingtone is the only member of SOTW on my ignore list. 'nuff said.:???:

It must be nice to be able to utilize the ignore list.:(.....:D

rleitch

10-30-2009, 09:51 PM

Hey, you can't make everyone happy.

For some folks "happy" is an elusive category--don't worry though, the other Pete likes him just fine! :)

steen

10-31-2009, 07:19 AM

Swingtone is the only member of SOTW on my ignore list.
2,040 posts as of today; many of them really long too. Hard to argue with that it works. It reminds me of a story that one of my best friends told me. He is Italian from Rome. His brother served with the Carabinieri. At some point he was stationed in Naples. When he arrived, the captain pulled the newcomers aside to give them instructions that he formally couldn't give but were necessary. It boiled down to: petty theft - forget it; scuffles without arms - look the other way; drivers running red lights - there is no way on earth we can deal with that number of violations; the Camorra - the Camorra...the Camorra...the Camorra...that is what you concentrate on. At least the message was consistent and the policy enforced accordingly.