My Patricola is on it's way

[stevethemusicman]

Hi All,

Well, I did it. I bought a Particola CL2 Virtuoso in Rosewood. Lucky for me it is on a trial basis. My chops are sort of back where I'll be able to tell if I love it or not and I'm sure I'll love it.

I went over to a major wind shop in Woodbridge where I bought my R13 a few months ago and tried all their new Clarinets. I wanted a base line to see how the Patricola is compared. I tried a Selmer, Buffet, and LaBlanc. I did not get a chance to try a Yamaha. They did not have any. Actually after trying all of them I found the R13 (2004) I bought from them is as good as the new ones.

If I like the Patricola I might sell the Buffet. I glad I also have the O'Brien Fossenkemper crystal mouthpiece. It will look so much better with that then the black ones I own. Now I will also get the O'Brien OB. Buying stuff is so nice :)

Steve

[Dave Dolson]

Steve: Did you buy the Patricola from the shop in Woodbridge or from someone else? And, do you have it now or are you awaiting delivery? Your post wasn't clear about that. DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Steve: Did you buy the Patricola from the shop in Woodbridge or from someone else? And, do you have it now or are you awaiting delivery? Your post wasn't clear about that. DAVE

Hi Dave,

Yes, I should have expanded on that. No, I didn't get it in Woodbridge (Dillion Music). They do not have Patricola's. I got it from WWBW and it should come today. I got an email from Angelo Patricola today wishing me luck with the new axe and he told me to open it but do not play it for 24 hours so it gets aclimated. I'm going to write him for clarification on this. Is this just the first time you get the clarinet? What happens when I go out in the winter and carry the Clarinet from my car to the auditorium in 20 degrees weather?

I can't see Stanley Drucker waiting 24 hours after going into Lincoln center to play his instrument :)

Thanks,
Steve

[Dave Dolson]

Steve: Got it. I'm anxious to read your opinions after receiving it.

I'm not into all of that stuff about clarinets other than I play mine right out of the case and did so whenever I tested various models. I'm not ready to declare as "myth" the advice you received (after all, the guy who gave it to you should know his instruments, and maybe rosewood is different), but I too am skeptical. Sure, someone may have experienced cracking or whatever, but I'd still wonder if playing it right out the case contributed to that.

If the only concern is playability, I'm even more skeptical. Maybe one of our clarinet experts could enlighten us.

Oh well . . . DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Hi All,

Well the Patricola is on my Bombay chest waiting to be played. I can't play it until tomorrow. Angelo Patricola recommended that I wait at least 24 hours for the wood temperature to become stable in the house. I guess the first time you play an instrument it should be in a good atmosphere. However I had to take a picture:

http://www.lewisobservatory.com/FirstPatricola.jpg

It's in the box and I'm itching to play it but NOOOOOOOO. I'm practice my Buffet tonight.

Steve

[Carl H.]

Did it include a mouthpiece?

My old Buffet A clarinet included a very nice wooden Buffet mouthpiece when it was new. I still have both.

[Dave Dolson]

Gorgeous - about like the ones I played at NAMM.

I see two barrels in that photo - don't I? Any clue as to their respective lengths? DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Did it include a mouthpiece?

My old Buffet A clarinet included a very nice wooden Buffet mouthpiece when it was new. I still have both.

No, It does not come with a mouthpiece. I'm going to use my Crystal (real crystal that is) O'Brien Fossenkemper Mouthpiece with it.

I'm also going to get another Crystal mouthpiece for it. I only wish they had a rosewood color one. The closist is some plastic ones I saw but I'm sure they stink :)

Steve

[stevethemusicman]

Gorgeous - about like the ones I played at NAMM.

I see two barrels in that photo - don't I? Any clue as to their respective lengths? DAVE

As for the barrels, here is what Angelo Patricola said and I quote "About the two barrels you will find inside, they are different so please try both because one is for darker sound and one a little bright sound."

I measured them and they are the same diameter at both ends. The bore looks the same although without calipers I can't tell. However the width of the middle looks wider on one.

Steve

[clarnibass]

I recently tried a few of them at Musikmesse. I'll attach a photo (although what you see in the photo is not anywhere near all the clarinets they had there).

Re waiting 24 hours, some makers are just (unecessarily) extra careful about "breaking in" the clarinet. I've had a clarinet crack once in the first week while in its case, after being played for only a few minutes and only once or twice. I'm sure the clarinet was played already too, at the very least, at the factory (if not at the store).

It was really interesting to see the Italian makers. All of them were (small) family companies and you could feel it. For most of them some of owners were there, as opposed to some sales person. Patricola was a typical Italian company. By that I mean I got the same impression from their instruments that I got from just about all Italian companies.

There might be a few mechnical "quirks", and the finishing might be a little "clumsy", but you pretty much forget all that when you play the instruments! With the exception of the A clarinet I tried, which had an unusually stuffy throat Bb (enough to not bother with the clarinet), all other Patricola clarinets I tried were great, and some of my favorites (although I would prefer the black-wood ones).

http://www.nitailevi.com/temp/patricola_cls1.jpg

[stevethemusicman]

I recently tried a few of them at Musikmesse. I'll attach a photo (although what you see in the photo is not anywhere near all the clarinets they had there).

Re waiting 24 hours, some makers are just (unecessarily) extra careful about "breaking in" the clarinet. I've had a clarinet crack once in the first week while in its case, after being played for only a few minutes and only once or twice. I'm sure the clarinet was played already too, at the very least, at the factory (if not at the store).

It was really interesting to see the Italian makers. All of them were (small) family companies and you could feel it. For most of them some of owners were there, as opposed to some sales person. Patricola was a typical Italian company. By that I mean I got the same impression from their instruments that I got from just about all Italian companies.

There might be a few mechnical "quirks", and the finishing might be a little "clumsy", but you pretty much forget all that when you play the instruments! With the exception of the A clarinet I tried, which had an unusually stuffy throat Bb (enough to not bother with the clarinet), all other Patricola clarinets I tried were great, and some of my favorites (although I would prefer the black-wood ones).

http://www.nitailevi.com/temp/patricola_cls1.jpg

Hi,

It's interesting that I am more interested in the color at this time. If the Patricola's play wonderfully then I'll even love the instrument more. Hey, what can I say! I'm weird. It will have to play as good as, or better than my Buffet R13. If my Buffet was in Rosewood I probably wouldn't want Patricola. Nah, If Buffet's were all Rosewood I would want a different color eh? By the way, the only Clarinet in Rosewood in the picture was an Eb Clarinet. :)

And aside from the physical looks I heard from a lot of people like yourself with only good reviews. I have not heard one negative. So tomorrow I will play it and we'll see.

About waiting for the wood to get aclamited. I agree to a point with Angelo although I used my own Buffet in the Army. Sometimes had to solo for an outdoor Concert on freezing cold days. Most of the time I used my Buffet but when cold weather comes I used one of the Army's. But sometimes I'd be caught or forget and take my own Clarinet and it never craked (luck).

The Patrocola that arrived today was probably not played at WWBW. At least as far as I can tell. WWBW told me it was in their warehouse and actually had to have an employee open it so I was sure I was getting the 2009 model that has some more refinement and leather pads.

When manufacturers play the clarinet I wonder how much they really play and how long after that would they ship. I think it is a good thing to be conserative to let it aclimate. Remember it came from both Italy to WWBW and WWBW sends to me via a plane ride (probably unpressurized with severe and temperture changes). You should be protective of any work of art when it comes in from the unknown.

Anyway, I'll post my first day's remarks tomorrow evening and hopefully I can hear me play and record both the Patrocola and the Buffet as soon as I can and I'll post on one of my sites for your opinions. (not an opinion of the player :) )

Thanks
Steve

[Dave Dolson]

Interesting. When I see multiple barrels, I automatically think PITCH (one being longer than the other). That's why I asked about length.

If it is for tonal variations, I'd guess the bores are different. I'll be interested to read your impression of the two barrels.

Nice photo of their display, too. Yes, I would imagine all horns are played before they are sold, if for any other reason than to ensure they play. So, leaving it in the case for a day is a mystery to me unless it is to introduce the wood to the local climate conditions. Is that a REAL fear or was the cracking an anomaly that would have occurred regardless? DAVE

[SOTSDO]

Considering the cost/benefit ratio of doing so, allowing a horn to lay fallow for a day so that there may be some positive good for the wood (I'm a poet and don't know it) seems to be a bargain. It can't hurt (unless you have a cat that like to pee in strange places), and it may prevent a joint crack that you will regret for the rest of the time that you have the horn.

I've had perhaps fifteen wood clarinets over the years (current count is five sopranos and three basses), and have never had a crack in any of them. Go figure...

[clarnibass]

Nice photo of their display, too. Yes, I would imagine all horns are played before they are sold, if for any other reason than to ensure they play. So, leaving it in the case for a day is a mystery to me unless it is to introduce the wood to the local climate conditions. Is that a REAL fear or was the cracking an anomaly that would have occurred regardless? DAVE
I guess I wasn't clear. The clarinet I mentioned that cracked was an example that sometimes no matter what you do, the clarinet can crack. I actually waited several days from receiving it until I played it (not to protect it from cracking but for another reason). Then I played it for a few minutes, once every few days. After about a week of doing this (which means I played it about twice) I put it back in the case. A few days later I opened the case again and the crack was there. By the way, the clarinet was kept in the same place as several other clarinets, which were played a lot right from the moment I bought them, and none of them cracked.

So it is a mystery that anyone can make a totaly random recommendation of 24 hours wait. IME there isn't always a real connection between how good an instrument is and any logic the manufacturer might have for these things (an example one of the best saxophones I've ever played had an awful mechanical flaw). For example, what if a clarinet is moved from a very humid eviorment to a very dry one. It might actually make more sense to play it imediately to stop the sudden big change to the dry enviorment. Maybe not really, but point is those recommendation are pretty random.

[clarnibass]

By the way, the only Clarinet in Rosewood in the picture was an Eb Clarinet. :)
Yes but that's just the photo. They had all their models in rosewood and blackwood and I've several of each. The only A I've tried, with the terrible and stuffy throat Bb, was rosewood (not that it being rosewood had anything to do with it). Other than that one I've only tried Bb and C clarinets and those were all good, both blackwood and rosewood.

[Dave Dolson]

Nitai: While my question was more rhetorical than on point, I do agree with your assessment of how to deal with wooden clarinets. And, while Mr. Patricola may have a defensible reason why one should leave his product in the case for 24 hours, I'm STILL skeptical about such advice.

I am envious, though, of you Steve for having such a nice instrument. If it plays like the ones I tried, it should be a keeper. Yes, I have two fine Buffet clarinets, either of which are far superior to my skills, but I confess to being a "collector" of fine instruments and would welcome such a thing into MY closet anytime. DAVE

[Carl H.]

Nitai: While my question was more rhetorical than on point, I do agree with your assessment of how to deal with wooden clarinets. And, while Mr. Patricola may have a defensible reason why one should leave his product in the case for 24 hours, I'm STILL skeptical about such advice.
Dave, if you lived somewhere other than CA you might have different thoughts on the subject. 10% relative humidity is quite common up here at certain times of the year.

[Dave Dolson]

Carl: That may be, but so far, no one has posted anything with authority about whether or not such advice is cogent. Are you claiming that a climate's humidity means something to wooden instruments? If so, what? Will it lead to cracking? Or, if cracking is experienced, can anyone say it was because of the climate and that other factors are not at work (like, a basic flaw in the wood)?

SoCal doesn't have high humidity (in most cases) but it isn't REALLY dry like some climates (and the 10% you mention). Nor is SoCal like the east coast of the U.S., the southern U.S. or Israel in summer which has HUMIDITY.

What bearing would the Minnesota climate have on an Italian-made clarinet, probably imported through New York, transported to Indiana, then sold to a guy in New Jersey?

No challenge on my part, I'm just curious. DAVE

[Gandalfe]

I've had perhaps fifteen wood clarinets over the years (current count is five sopranos and three basses), and have never had a crack in any of them. Go figure...I've maybe ten and same thing. But are we now cursed because we said this? :roll:

[Dave Dolson]

I just visited the Patricola web-site. I read the advice posted there about allowing a new clarinet to sit in its case for 24 to 48 hours to acclimate itself to the location. No comment - that's already been discussed.

I see where they had three different Bb models - the 2, 4, and 5. The 4 had the most keywork, the 2 had the least amount of keying. Does anyone know the advantage to any of that?

My Buffet RC Prestige has an alternate Eb/Gb (or is it Gb/Eb?) which I've found very useful, but the additional ring shown on Patricola's 4 and 5, and the extra spatula for the right-hand pinky on the 4 makes me curious. DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Hi All,

It's wonderful. It's beautiful, It plays easier than my Buffet R13 and plus the sound is soooooo good. I went up to Dillion Music to get a new Ligature and to show off the Clarinet. Elaine from Dillion loved it as well.

Over the weekend I'm going to record with it. I'm going to pick an etude record it with the Buffet and then 2 recordings of the Patricola with the different barrels on it.

There is definatly a difference in sound with the barrels. Angelo Patricola also said, and it's in the instructions, to oil the Clarinet with Almond Oil once a month. And then when I told Elaine at Dillion she and the repair person suggested (they use Olive Oil) that I put Waxed paper on the pads before putting the oil in the horn. Makes sense to me.

It's funny that when I first picked it up this morning and played it, I knew immediatly that I love it. I only wish I had a mouthpiece the color of the Clarinet but the Crystal one works fine.

Thanks,
Steve

[stevethemusicman]

I just visited the Patricola web-site. I read the advice posted there about allowing a new clarinet to sit in its case for 24 to 48 hours to acclimate itself to the location. No comment - that's already been discussed.

I see where they had three different Bb models - the 2, 4, and 5. The 4 had the most keywork, the 2 had the least amount of keying. Does anyone know the advantage to any of that?

My Buffet RC Prestige has an alternate Eb/Gb (or is it Gb/Eb?) which I've found very useful, but the additional ring shown on Patricola's 4 and 5, and the extra spatula for the right-hand pinky on the 4 makes me curious. DAVE

Hi Dave,

I belive one of the keys (According to Dillion) might be an alternative G#. I will write to Angelo and ask him. I also considered it but I barely had the funds for the CL2. Ask Patricola to send you a catalogue. It's printed on heavy stock and gives you a good idea of what they look like. You can also download the catalogue in PDF format

Thanks,

Steve

[clarnibass]

or Israel in summer which has HUMIDITY.
Actaully this is wrong. Eventhough Israel is small, there are HUGE differences in humidity between different cities. Near the sea it's very high humidity in the summer, hard to tolerate to be honest. But in my city, it's completely different and actually not humid most of the year, and in the winter it's very dry. In the summer it can also be very dry sometimes with sudden changes to humid and back.

I see where they had three different Bb models - the 2, 4, and 5. The 4 had the most keywork, the 2 had the least amount of keying. Does anyone know the advantage to any of that?
These extra keys give a few more options for fingerings. They are only an advantage if those extra fingerings are an advantage to you. There's no such thing as a Gb/Eb key, but there is a Ab/Eb, which is the exra key for the left pinky (probably what you meant that your RC has). The third ring is basically an articulated C#/G#. This is like a saxophone, where you can hold the right pinky G# key while playing lower notes with right hand fingers. The extra right pinky key is range to low Eb, extra semi tone to usual clarinets. For me all three extra keys would be a disadvantage, but you might like them.

[clarnibass]

Angelo Patricola also said, and it's in the instructions, to oil the Clarinet with Almond Oil once a month. And then when I told Elaine at Dillion she and the repair person suggested (they use Olive Oil) that I put Waxed paper on the pads before putting the oil in the horn. Makes sense to me.
Oiling the bore once a month is probably overkill. Actually most cooking oils can get rancid, so using them a lot is probably not a great idea. I personally like the bore from Doctor. According to Doctor, he adds especailly strong anti oxidants. I believe him. I'm wondering if Patricola have heard about this bore oil.

Yes, you don't want oil on the pads. Especailly cooking oil which can eventually become sticky. But IME it's totally unecessary to oil the clarinet so often.....

I only wish I had a mouthpiece the color of the Clarinet but the Crystal one works fine.
Vandoren makes (or at least used to make) a brown hard rubber mouthpiece. It's the same as their regular model, excpet the material is a bit of a soptty brown (sorry I can't really describe it very good). It is much more similar to rosewood than regular rubber mouthpiece. Maybe you can try to find one of those mouthpieces. Another option is something like a Pomarico wood mouthpiece. They are not so dark like rubber mouthpieces.

It's funny that when I first picked it up this morning and played it, I knew immediatly that I love it.
Actually, that's one of the most important things in a clarinet. Consistency of tone, intonation, keys, etc. etc. are all very important. But IMO after all that, there is anotehr factor, emotional one, where you just feel it is the right instrument when you play it! :)

[Dave Dolson]

Nitai: Thanks for your post.

My Buffet RC Prestige has an additional lever for the left pinky that operates an alternate Eb (above the break). Below the break, it is G# (or Ab - take your choice). I'm sorry if I wrote those notes incorrectly. I think one of the Patricola models has a similar additional lever, but it was difficult to see in the photos.

When I was in Israel during the summer of 1982 (or was it '83? . . . the year they invaded Lebannon), Tel Aviv was VERY humid. The humidity did drop off when we were in Jerusalem, but compared to SoCal, it was HUMID. It was also a bit cooler at Jerusalem's higher elevation. Of course one can't pin down a country's weather by being there for ten days.

I think I understand the third ring on the one model now . . . under the left hand's third finger. Thanks for that.

Steve: I have a catalog for Patricola clarinets, obtained at the '08 NAMM Show. I looked at it closely last night. It is much easier to view than a web-site page. I get it now . . . the model differences. I think you made a good chopice with the #2 model. It appears to have all the features necessary (and comparable to other mainline pro models). It would be my choice if I bought one.

The two barrels differ in length, as well, according to the brochure. I'd be interested in their measurements (length) in millimeters if you can do that. Thanks! DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Hi Dave,

Although it will get better I'm finding the Eb alternate is getting in my way. It's very weird. After a few weeks with it I don't think it will hamper me.

I'll get the measurements and some images of the axe as well as the recording of the instrument with each barrel and the Buffet R13. Even I am waiting to hear any differences.

Steve

Nitai: Thanks for your post.

My Buffet RC Prestige has an additional lever for the left pinky that operates an alternate Eb (above the break). Below the break, it is G# (or Ab - take your choice). I'm sorry if I wrote those notes incorrectly. I think one of the Patricola models has a similar additional lever, but it was difficult to see in the photos.

When I was in Israel during the summer of 1982 (or was it '83? . . . the year they invaded Lebannon), Tel Aviv was VERY humid. The humidity did drop off when we were in Jerusalem, but compared to SoCal, it was HUMID. It was also a bit cooler at Jerusalem's higher elevation. Of course one can't pin down a country's weather by being there for ten days.

I think I understand the third ring on the one model now . . . under the left hand's third finger. Thanks for that.

Steve: I have a catalog for Patricola clarinets, obtained at the '08 NAMM Show. I looked at it closely last night. It is much easier to view than a web-site page. I get it now . . . the model differences. I think you made a good chopice with the #2 model. It appears to have all the features necessary (and comparable to other mainline pro models). It would be my choice if I bought one.

The two barrels differ in length, as well, according to the brochure. I'd be interested in their measurements (length) in millimeters if you can do that. Thanks! DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Hi All,

OK, I recorded 3 versions of a few measures of a Rose Etude. They are of the Buffett and the Patricola. The Patricola has 2. One with B3.65 and the other with B2,66. It’s interesting that the B2.66 barrel has a ‘1’ super imposed upon the B2. I wonder why. I’m going to ask Patricola about that.

So here are the links. Please realize that until about 1 month or more ago I had not played the clarinet in 40 years so be kind to the playing. My embouchure is weak to say the least.

http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track1.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track1.mp3)
http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track2.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track2.mp3)
http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track3.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track3.mp3)

Now you'll have to tell me which is which. :)

Steve

[Dave Dolson]

Gee, Steve, they all sounded like a . . . CLARINET. This may be a case of the player FEELING some differences that are totally missed by the listener.

If I HAD to pick one over the other, I'd pick track 2 and 3 as sounding a tad more robust in the lower register, but then I may be falling into a trap here. DAVE

[stevethemusicman]

Gee, Steve, they all sounded like a . . . CLARINET. This may be a case of the player FEELING some differences that are totally missed by the listener.

If I HAD to pick one over the other, I'd pick track 2 and 3 as sounding a tad more robust in the lower register, but then I may be falling into a trap here. DAVE

Hi Dave,

This isn't a trap at all. It's two fine clarinets that we're comparing the sound. Technically both are great. The Patricola has the alternate Eb key which is, right now, in my way but soon to be a great addition. I'll post the order in another day.

I don't want people to say "I thought so!"

Steve

[clarnibass]

The differences are small, but they are easier to notice when listening only to parts, like the first note, etc.

I thought 1 was best mostly because of your playing and I also thought most of the range (epseiclaly low notes) were much stronger (not in a volume sense). 2 was only better maybe for the higher notes (like the second note) but overall the sound was much weaker. 3 was more similar to 2 in that sense in the low notes. For this piece, I thought this weaker tone fits better in the second register, but the low notes seemed too unstable. If you can practice to get 2 to the same level of stability as 1 then it has the best potential for this specific piece, where the weaker tone fits better. For different music the choice might be very different, and there is a lot of music that I would choose 1 as best to fit.

Obviously it's absurd and unecessary to need a different clarinet or barrel for every different music, so it's possible to have more options with one clarinet. Just something for practice.

[stevethemusicman]

Hi All,

Well here is the scoop. Track 1 and Track 2 is the Patricola and track 3 is the Buffet. The Track 1 is the Patricola with the larger barrel which is supposed to be a darker sound which I believe it is. Track 2 is the Patricola with the shorter barrel. And Track 3 is the Buffet

I thank you for all your comments and, it helped me to decide that I want to keep the Patricola. It plays technically better than the Buffet and I believe with the longer barrel it sounds better which is very subjective.

Thanks again for your input,

Steve

http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track1.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track1.mp3)
http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track2.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track2.mp3)
http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track3.mp3 (http://www.lewisobservatory.com/Track3.mp3)