Quite possibly the worst "Expert" ever!

[Merlin]

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/92033_piano-jazz-five-four.htm

[tictactux]

(stays tuned for his "explanation" of 8/8 ...)

[Ed Svoboda]

That was mildly painful.

I wouldn't call 5/4 a time signature that you rarely play. It's in a number of classical pieces and you find it with some regularity these days in jazz. Granted when Brubeck and Desmond were playing around with odd time signatures it was rarely used in jazz; however, Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, 2nd movement (Pathétique) utilizes 5/4 and it was written in 1893. I'm sure there are numerous earlier examples of 5/4 time in classical music but that is the one that stuck out in my head this morning.

Now if you want to talk about where 5/4 is rarely used then it would be in rock music. The only notable use of it I can recall is on the song Mother on Chicago III. Early Chicago had a series of rather interesting things going on and were pushing the boundaries of what was being done in rock music through their first five albums.

[Carl H.]

1231212312123121231212312

:roll:

[Merlin]

That was mildly painful.

I wouldn't call 5/4 a time signature that you rarely play. It's in a number of classical pieces and you find it with some regularity these days in jazz. Granted when Brubeck and Desmond were playing around with odd time signatures it was rarely used in jazz; however, Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, 2nd movement (Pathétique) utilizes 5/4 and it was written in 1893. I'm sure there are numerous earlier examples of 5/4 time in classical music but that is the one that stuck out in my head this morning.

Now if you want to talk about where 5/4 is rarely used then it would be in rock music. The only notable use of it I can recall is on the song Mother on Chicago III. Early Chicago had a series of rather interesting things going on and were pushing the boundaries of what was being done in rock music through their first five albums.

The most painful thing to me was the fact the riff he finally got around to playing was in 4/4...UGH!

[Merlin]

I just forced myself to sit through his piece on "experimental jazz".

Let's just say the experiment didn't quite turn out as planned.

[Jzer21]

You think that's bad, check out this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nel_pn7f48A&feature=channel

[Merlin]

You think that's bad, check out this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nel_pn7f48A&feature=channel

Agreed, that was bad - but other than not knowing what a bis key is called, he didn't give any outright wrong info.

[Al Stevens]

Now if you want to talk about where 5/4 is rarely used then it would be in rock music.
I know a singer who drops into 5/4 every now and then at unexpected places. It's called "hacking meter."

There is an Austrian jazz singer (http://www.simonekopmajer.com) who does "Take 5" in 4/4 time on purpose. Talk about painful.

[Jzer21]

Agreed, that was bad - but other than not knowing what a bis key is called, he didn't give any outright wrong info.

True, but how sad is that? How can you, in good conscience, purport to be an "expert" and not even know what the Bis key is called? I learned that in the 7th grade.

But I was thinking more along the lines of how the video is titled "Advanced Saxophone Excersices: Upper Register Runs" but there wasn't a single upper register run in the video, nor did he really talk about upper register runs. The closest he got was playing a high E and, well, that's not a run, nor is it advanced.

[SOTSDO]

My cherished 5/4 story (one of two, actually) is that, when serving as a drill sergeant down at Fort Knox in 1971, I used 5/4 to confound the military masses.

Our company commander, a musician at heart, thought that drums would help with drill (marching, basically), and was able to draft on some post entity to get a set of side drums and two bass drums. As one of the two senior "actual" drill instructors (each platoon had two, an older NCO and a younger one like me; the young guy did all of the physical aspects of the training), I was able to lay claim to two side drums and one bass.

I did my training by first picking out the guys with actual marching band experience, and then taking them off to the farthest corner of the drill field to innoculate them in "our way" of marching. I used the foundation rhythm from "Mars, The Giver Of War" from Holst's "The Planets" as the "text", and soon had my mini-military music throbbing away in fine style. From there, it was a simple task to ramming the every other foot technique needed to handle Mr. Holst's work into the heads of my platoon, all thirty-odd of them (and they were odd, no question there).

As the whole company as a unit (all five platoons) seldom moved as a unit to anything with the drums, "our little secret" remained such until we started practicing for the battalion review. While others could understand that something was "wrong", none of them really got what was happening.

When the battalion review came around, none of the platoons who had the misfortune to be adjacent to us, or even near to us, could keep their step due to the jerky 5/4 rhythm that we so cheerfully and carefully churned out. Since it was second nature for my boys, we stepped out in perfect unison throughout, even making the difficult "flank" maneuvers without a misstep. We won the drill & ceremony award for two straight cycles.

One of the best things about it all was that the Mars rhythm is a great one to march to, ominous as it sounds. Too bad it's in a weird meter.

As far as I know, my secret departed with me. We only used the drums for two cycles, so someone may have had an inkling that drums weren't the way to go.

[Carl H.]

I don't recall the tune, but I remember a (name withheld) conductor who counted out a movement in 7 - one two three four five six se ven.

Same conductor same concert (it has to be, I only played 1 time with him), "Violins! Play that passage halfway between the frog and the bridge!"


He is still employed in music as a conductor.:evil:

[Al Stevens]

There is an Austrian jazz singer (http://www.simonekopmajer.com)...

Which reminds me. (To fully appreciate this story, go to her website and take a long look at her pictures.)

She wanted to learn to sing "Makin' Whoopie" at the wedding of a friend. We were alone in a closed restaurant as I taught her the song from the piano and a lead sheet. I asked did she have any questions. (Recall that she is Austrian.)

Standing close to me at the piano and looking down at me with those big doe eyes, she asked me, "Al, what does it mean, making whoopie?"

I have since thought of countless clever answers. But at the time I was speechless.