Mazzeo system fingerings

[Luiz]

Hello,

I'm testing just right now a Selmer Series 10 Mazzeo Model, full Boehm, (or should I say "full Mazzeo" ;-)) serial n. W53xx, from 1971.

At first it looked too strange, but after studying it's mechanism I really got curious about it, it looks great. I really enjoyed it's tone, smoothness, the B/E sounds, and I'm thinking about buying it.

The problem is that despite the mechanics is in a good condition (but with a repaired crack in the fragile Mazzeo's bell) the instrument is not properly regulated. For this I can't know for sure if the differences in the fingerings I found is due to the Mazzeo system or improper key work.

Basically the differences I found are at the altissimo register (i.e. I can't keep down the G#/D# keys), and it's famous feature, the Bb fingering (with de A key and any right hand ring) is not working properly.

Does anyone knows where can I find it's fingering chart?

One more thing, what range of price should I expect for this instrument?

Thank you in advance.

[Gandalfe]

Welcome Luiz. The differences between a Boehm system clarinet and a Mazzeo system clarinet are:

The throat B♭ using the A key and any one or combination of left-hand second or third finger or right-hand first, second, or third fingers to operate a linkage opening the third right-index-finger trill key, rather than using the inadequately vented register key to obtain that pitch; the same fingerings, minus A key, produce A; traditional (Boehm) B♭ and A fingerings are also available;
A left-hand-thumb plateau key
A ringless bell with less flare
Full and modified Mazzeo clarinets feature:

An E♭/B♭ key playable with the thumb, first, and third fingers and D♭/A♭ key on the left-hand side
An articulated B♭ to C♯ keys
An alternate left-hand A♭/E♭ key
Hope that helps.

[Luiz]

Thank you Gandalfe, for the really fast reply.

Do you know anything about the altissimo register fingerings? Should it be exactly the same?

[SteveSklar]

I have a fingering chart for the Mazzeo somewhere.

Here I have some brochures and some brochures on how the system helps in certain transition notes, etc
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clAltKeywork.htm

There were 3 different systems. The one for Selmer Paris instruments, the Signet and the Bundy. The Selmer Paris mechanism wsa of course the best with adjustment screws and such, and the Bundy had no adjustment screws.

I do not see the fingering chart on my website so it's somewhere else ....

[Gandalfe]

Sherman Friedland sez, "There is no alternate fingering chart necessary, which is the beauty of this system. There are no alternate fingerings. Here is how it works:

The system features a simple way(s) for playing the throat Bb, widely reputed to be the most difficult note on the clarinet to play well ,clearly and in tune. It uses the third trill key, which lifts when you play the A spatule and any combination of fingers, or even a single finger which opens the A spatule, giving you of course, the throat Bb with the best possible fingering for it on the Boehm clarinet.

First, for an example, play the open G on the clarinet, next play an A on the a spatule (a) as it is called. Now you want to play Bb and then the note F a perfect fifth above. You play the A as stated, the Bb with the a spatule and the first finger of the right hand which is three-fifths of the fingering for the following note, F, as we’ve said.

You finger the note Bb with as much of the fingering of the note that follows the Bb while playing the Bb, making the legato almost sure to be perfect, and you reverse the process descending. It may be confusing to read but simply practice it and it will come, much more easily than fingering each note and then suddenly having to add five or six fingers at once.

That’s all there is to it. You will find that when you release the Bb, you must bring your fingers up with clarity and quickly or else you will get an additional blip in the sound. That is of course, if your clarinet is adjusted properly."

Based upon this I would guess that you start by using the standard altissimo fingerings. Your mileage may vary.

[Gandalfe]

Ah here it is, Sherm also sez, "No fingering chart is necessary if you know the basic clarinet fingerings. If the horn is in correct adjustment when you put down the right hand the third trill key will open. With that open all you do is open the a spatule A key and you have the throat Bb, the best one there is on the clarinet.

Any combination of fingers including either the right hand rings or the left hand will open the trill key, so it is a good way of playing the throat Bb.
The only problem is that you cannot put any fingers down when you are not playing Bb, meaning that anything down will again open the trill key, giving you some other note than the one you want.

Probably it will be much easier to do it with the clarinet in hand. If the trill key doesn’t open, either there is a clutch on the right hand to keep it shut, or it needs to be repaired. The clutch is a small slide that goes up and down, up closes the third trill key, down allows it to open freely."

My Mazzeo is in transit, so I haven't tried this yet. It's a Bundy I picked up for $75 with shipping. Cheers.

[SteveSklar]

well I saw a nice full page alternate fingering chart from Selmer for the Mazzeo .. i'll be looking for it. It includes trills and everything else from what I recall

[Gandalfe]

well I saw a nice full page alternate fingering chart from Selmer for the Mazzeo .. i'll be looking for it. It includes trills and everything else from what I recallPlease do. Thanks Steve.

[SOTSDO]

Without exception, every Mazzeo horn that I have seen (outside of the brand new ones in the old Selmer showroom over in Indiana) has had the Mazzeo mechanism disabled. Most have been Bundy horns, but it's pretty evident that Rosario's magic had very little appeal in the student market.

Whenever I see a used one, I ask if the connecting pin is missing. Most don't know what I'm talking about. Not a good sign.

[SteveSklar]

The Bundy I believe was fixed but removeable.

The Signet could be turned on/off by pulling a lever
connected
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/SelmerUSA/Mazzeo/2a.jpg

disconnected
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/SelmerUSA/Mazzeo/3a.jpg

[SteveSklar]

the fingering chart i was thinking of is located on this brochure
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/CLmpcGallery/Selmer/Mazzeo/MazzeoSelmerFingering1959.pdf

i have to use it on the rare occassion i have to fix one

[Luiz]

I would guess that you start by using the standard altissimo fingerings.

I've tried and it's working... but the big difference is that I can't keep the Eb lever closed from the D to G notes.


Without exception, every Mazzeo horn that I have seen (outside of the brand new ones in the old Selmer showroom over in Indiana) has had the Mazzeo mechanism disabled. Most have been Bundy horns, but it's pretty evident that Rosario's magic had very little appeal in the student market.
Whenever I see a used one, I ask if the connecting pin is missing. Most don't know what I'm talking about. Not a good sign.

Maybe that's the case of the Mazzeo I'm testing... but it still has the connecting pin although I'm not sure if complete and if just a simple repair could make it fully working. I think I'll have to take it to a good technician.


the fingering chart i was thinking of is located on this brochure
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/CLmpcGallery/Selmer/Mazzeo/MazzeoSelmerFingering1959.pdf
i have to use it on the rare occassion i have to fix one

I've been already at your web, Steve, while I was looking for serials. You have a great content there. Thank you for the fingering's brochure. This one is a full Selmer Paris one (with a small "depose" printed over Selmer's logo)
It seems that the keys are a little different from the one you've sent the pictures. Here's one photo of the pin:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8431/dscn3952.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/dscn3952.jpg/) http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/dscn3952.jpg/1/w1024.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img340/dscn3952.jpg/1/)

[Gandalfe]

My $50 eBay purchase of a Bundy Mazzeo clarinet was a waste of time. The instrument is unplayable so I can't determine if the special features of the Mazzeo work. And the key mechanism doesn't look the same as any pictures I can see of Bundy Mazzeo's online.

More than anything else for me it is a curiousity. Now if I had a horn like Luis' Selmer, then it might be worth it, ... or not. 8-)

[Luiz]

My $50 eBay purchase of a Bundy Mazzeo clarinet was a waste of time. The instrument is unplayable so I can't determine if the special features of the Mazzeo work. And the key mechanism doesn't look the same as any pictures I can see of Bundy Mazzeo's online.

More than anything else for me it is a curiousity. Now if I had a horn like Luis' Selmer, then it might be worth it, ... or not. 8-)

That's a pity.
I am also as curious as you, since this Mazzeo I had in my hands was adjusted to be just like a full boehm. A beautifully sounding full boehm.
I've returned it to it's owner, who is a saxophonist that works part time as a repair man, and gave him many instructions (thanks to you all) to have it working properly.
Maybe in the future I'll post my feelings playing that horn working as it was meant to work.

[tictactux]

My $50 eBay purchase of a Bundy Mazzeo clarinet was a waste of time.
Hmm, all my three or four $20 Bundy Mazzeos played fine - after the usual overhaul, of course. Contrary to popular belief, you lose some alternative fingerings (at least on the Bundy) with the Mazzeo system, especially leaving your right hand down while noodling around the break is a big no-no with Mazzeos.

I usually disable the mechanism as most players don't know/want it, unless they're collectors.

[SOTSDO]

I've been looking for one of the Selmer (Paris) Mazzeo horns for a long time, but when they sell they don't go for cheap, working or not. I would imagine that the Paris horns (by and large) are functional.

The Bundy ones are the ones that I've seen are the ones where the "clutch" has all been pulled (and left on someone's workbench, no doubt).

On the other hand, I can only imagine the first reaction of the teacher presented with the problem of a student with a bright new Bundy Mazzeo horn...

[Carl H.]

Drove to go buy an Eb Bundy yesterday for $25. When I got there it was a Bb Mazzeo Bundy in mint condition with the cleanest Bundy 3 mouthpiece I've ever seen.

A bit disappointed it wasn't a $25 Bundy Eb, but getting a minty playable Mazzeo was OK by me.

Just slapped a fibracell on it and played it up and down. No leaks or squawks, for 100% plastic, it isn't bad. Don't think I'll play it in the symphony, but might use it in a pit or outdoor big band.

[SOTSDO]

Does it have the clutch pin? Every Bundy Maezzo that I've seen has had it removed.

[Carl H.]

Does it have the clutch pin? Every Bundy Maezzo that I've seen has had it removed.
Too late (lazy) to go check, but it functioned as advertised, unlike my previous one which had been converted.

[Franklin Liao]

Can I get some tips on which Mazzeo to pay particular attention to if one is to acquire a horn. To date I've only known of the Selmer 10 as a "thing to look for" so...

[SOTSDO]

The Bundy was the bottom of the line, pretty much a standard Bundy horn from the era with the Maezzo mechanism, a clutch pin on the upper joint, and the plateau key for the LH thumb, plus the unique Maezzo bell.

The Signet was a Signet (mid range price) wooden horn, with the same system but apparently a lever to flip. I've never seen one myself, but there's one up on eBay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Signet-Bb-clarinet-Mazzeo-model-/160578293900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256336508c#ht_500wt_1156

The Selmer models were standard pro instruments. I've seen them both with more or less "standard' 17/6 keywork as well as in a "full Boehm" model. Same bells, same alternative fingering for the break, with the same clutch pin as the Bundy model.

As I've said before, most of the Bundys appear to be missing the clutch. Certainly the two I attempted to buy, along with another four or five that I've inquired about, were in that sad condition. The Selmer ones are typical Selmer high end craftsmanship. i dunno about the Signet.

In my fifty-six odd years of clarinet playing, I have yet to encounter anyone who owned (or plays) one, and have only met a few folks who have played someone else's. Not a good percentage there.

The main problem with them is that you have to abandon all resonance fingerings for the throat notes. If you can undo years of training pointing towards that technique, you might be able to adapt. Smart money says that you can't though.

[tictactux]

I have a spare Bundy clutch in my drawer, as well as a ready-to-transform back Bundy in my closet.
The only challenge consists in finding the coil-sprung-ball adjustment screw for the clutch. (and old Biro or an ball bearing would probably do for a replacement)