Advise needed about mouthpieces

[l1sav]

Hi everyone,

Could i ask your advice regarding mouthpieces?
I currently play a LeBlanc Sonata, standard barrel, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece and Legere 3 reed.

My problem is that i am having problems getting the very very high notes (anything above E (3 leger lines above the stave) and above on my current set up, but i absolutely love the sound of this mouthpiece.

I have been given a selmer C85 to try, which i can get the high notes with no problem but dont like the sound of the lower notes with this mouthpiece. Sounds very woolly, and i feel like there is more resistance and feel like i have to blow harder which tires me out.

Is it anything i am doing, or do i need to change my mouthpiece so i can get a consistency across the board. can you recommend anything?

Im not an expert in these things and would really appreciate some advice as its really doing my head in.

Thanks in advance.

Lisa.

[tictactux]

I think it's just a matter of training and of finding the "good reed" that works best with this mouthpiece, provided the latter has an even (as opposed to warped) facing.

You didn't mention how long you're struggling with these notes, so I can just recommend some patience and experimentation with subtle embouchure changes (more or less mouthpiece in your mouth, slightly different angle, reeds and so on).

Good luck!

[Gandalfe]

Yup, harder reed is necessary for the high notes and a lot of the dreaded long note practice for the beginner. Also look at the various fingerings for the note you're working on. You can get the first E above the staff to speak without using your right-hand pinkie, but it doesn't sound as good.

[Helen]

Yup, harder reed is necessary for the high notes and a lot of the dreaded long note practice for the beginner.

I'm not sure that Lisa's a beginner BTW, but you're right, long tones are a good thing to practice no matter what level you're at.

[l1sav]

I'm not sure that Lisa's a beginner BTW, but you're right, long tones are a good thing to practice no matter what level you're at.

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice. Like you said Helen, im not a beginner by any means..... but not a pro either. Infact you maybe shocked to hear..... im self taught, only been playing clarinet 4 yrs, and sax 3 yrs. But i did lots of grades in recorder when i was much younger so took to it very very easily. I can read music, i play the piano, so the only bit i needed to learn was the mouthpiece and slightly different fingering.
I sometimes lack in technique having had no lessons. So this is why i am asking your advice.
I dont normally tell people how long (or little should i say) i have been playing and when they find out, they are normally quite shocked!! so i take that as a compliment. :o)
Will just keep on trying to get those wretched high high notes.
I can normally get the really high ones if im doing a run up to it, but if i need to hit those really high notes straight off, i struggle.
I just cant understand why i can get the high notes very easily on the selmer mouthoiece but struggle on the vandoren.
Practise practise practise, i know.
Bit difficult when i work long hrs.
Lisa.

[tictactux]

I just cant understand why i can get the high notes very easily on the selmer mouthoiece but struggle on the vandoren.
Every mouthpiece is different, having a rounder or more shallow facing curve, sometimes concave along the longitudinal axis and two hundred and thirteen other characteristics.
Now you have a reed that again has several specific properties. Thick heart, rounder tip, filed or unfiled, from France or South America, ...
And the ligature! A millimeter up or down the mouthpiece, half a turn tighter screwed etc can have a dramatic effect.
Last, there's your mouth. Teeth, jaw position, tongue shape, air speed and so on. Unlike everbody else's.
Really - there are so many combinations that work fine on "mainstream" notes, but towards the edge of the spectrum, well, that's where things are getting interesting...

[pete]

... And, as I've pointed out before, Benny Goodman generally used 1.5 strength reeds. I think some of his playing was relatively high :).

While I commend you for learning an instrument by yourself, it might be good to go to a clarinet-specific teacher and get his advice. There are just so many variables that we really can't track down for you without seeing you or hearing you play. However, also be aware that self-taught folks sometimes learn enough bad habits on a particular instrument that it's easier to learn a different instrument than it is to unlearn the bad habits. (This happened to my favorite composer, Peter Schickele, who also was mostly self taught on clarinet. He was told to switch to bassoon and became a fairly good player.)

The Vandoren B45 and the Selmer C85 are both 'pieces I've played and I have recommended them in the past. Both mouthpieces, however, do come in a bunch of different facings and tip openings, so someone might conclude, "I like this B45 in almost everything, but I have a problem with altissimo. I might try a B40 and see if there's a difference." But, again, that's just switching out equipment. If you have a fundamental flaw in your embochure, posture, reed strength or how you're putting the reed and/or ligature on the mouthpiece, switching out the equipment might cause more harm than good, at least monetarily.

[jbtsax]

The best suggestion would be to find a good clarinet teacher and take a few lessons to develop some good concepts and playing habits. No one has ever become a great player by reading posts on the internet. :)

That said, if you have a reed that is stiff enough for the high register and a good mouthpiece which it appears that you have, then the problem is either the embouchure or the airstream or both.

1. Play your mouthpiece and barrel apart from the clarinet at forte. The pitch should be a loud and clear F# concert or slightly higher.
If it is not up to this pitch think of your mouthpiece as a sour lemon and try again.

2. Produce the note you are trying to play doing an "air whistle" first to tune the airstream. (As in regular whistling, the back of the tongue goes up as the notes go higher.)

3. Play the high note with the embouchure of #1 and the airstream of #2.

4. Remember that the notes take faster and colder air as you go higher.

5. For all notes, if your airstream is tuned to the note before it goes into the clarinet, the reed and the embouchure don't need to work as hard to make a beautiful sound.

If you have any questions about this approace, let me know and I will try to answer them.

John

[pete]

No one has ever become a great player by reading posts on the internet. :)
JBT posts truth, thus he is quoted.

[l1sav]

The best suggestion would be to find a good clarinet teacher and take a few lessons to develop some good concepts and playing habits. No one has ever become a great player by reading posts on the internet. :)

That said, if you have a reed that is stiff enough for the high register and a good mouthpiece which it appears that you have, then the problem is either the embouchure or the airstream or both.

1. Play your mouthpiece and barrel apart from the clarinet at forte. The pitch should be a loud and clear F# concert or slightly higher.
If it is not up to this pitch think of your mouthpiece as a sour lemon and try again.

2. Produce the note you are trying to play doing an "air whistle" first to tune the airstream. (As in regular whistling, the back of the tongue goes up as the notes go higher.)

3. Play the high note with the embouchure of #1 and the airstream of #2.

4. Remember that the notes take faster and colder air as you go higher.

5. For all notes, if your airstream is tuned to the note before it goes into the clarinet, the reed and the embouchure don't need to work as hard to make a beautiful sound.

If you have any questions about this approace, let me know and I will try to answer them.

John

Hi,
I am very aware that i have prob picked up some bad habits by not having any lessons, but i am also very aware that i wont learn anything by surfing the net, thats why i was asking a for a few tips.

I will have a go at what you said John.

I think the more i worry about it the more i cant do it, if that makes any sense. I know i can play these really high notes sometimes......... just got to get over it.

Will keep on trying, thanks for all your advise.

Lisa.

[RoBass]

No one has ever become a great player by reading posts on the internet. :)

...no, sometimes is necessary to read some books too ;-) **kidding**

Sorry, but this statement is so old - and not proven in every case... There's a lot of artists, never teached as mentioned but hailed at all. Take a look after Django Reinhardt f.i.! It's not common way, but a possible one.

Regarding the question: You play Legere-reed in 3? What's the effect, if you choose a wooden piece? Sometimes the wooden reed is more comfortable for less experienced players. And you -practising clarinet for 3 yrs and parallel to other instruments- are one of this. This is not bad condition, but you should experiment with some different reeds before you chosse a new MPC. Your "old" MPC is well and should do a very good job with 90% of players on.

My recommendation would be twice - 1st: search for a "better" reed and 2nd: vary your ligature!

kindly
Roman

[l1sav]

...no, sometimes is necessary to read some books too ;-) **kidding**

Sorry, but this statement is so old - and not proven in every case... There's a lot of artists, never teached as mentioned but hailed at all. Take a look after Django Reinhardt f.i.! It's not common way, but a possible one.

Regarding the question: You play Legere-reed in 3? What's the effect, if you choose a wooden piece? Sometimes the wooden reed is more comfortable for less experienced players. And you -practising clarinet for 3 yrs and parallel to other instruments- are one of this. This is not bad condition, but you should experiment with some different reeds before you chosse a new MPC. Your "old" MPC is well and should do a very good job with 90% of players on.

My recommendation would be twice - 1st: search for a "better" reed and 2nd: vary your ligature!

kindly
Roman

Hi Roman,

Re my reeds, i actually prefer the Legere's. I was introduced to them last year for my Alto Sax, so i thought i would try it for the clarinet, and i must say i prefer them over the cane reeds, which i had been using previously.
And i have a rovner ligature.
I will just keep practising and i "may" just go and try some different mouthpieces at my local music shop, see what i think.
There has to be the right combination out there thats right for me, it is a huge minefield with regards to mouthpieces, reeds & ligatures.
I will get there eventually.
thanks everyone for all your advice.
Lisa.

[RoBass]

Try a metal ligature instead of the Rovner! You'll see a significant difference in high tones...

kindly
Roman



PS: It's not possible to recommend a MPC exactly because we don't know your physical geometry, we don't know your embouchure and we don't know your effective volume. All these parameters are the basis for a first hint. Then (like tictactux already wrote) there a set of appr. 100 or more variables outside - all more or less important...
But we could give you a strategy to fix your lack with high notes. And there's the MPC only one factor - and not the most important.

[tictactux]

Try a metal ligature instead of the Rovner! You'll see a significant difference in high tones...
In overtones, maybe. But certainly not in getting these notes at all. Unless you're fastening the reed right on its tip...

[Gandalfe]

Try a metal ligature instead of the Rovner! You'll see a significant difference in high tones...That's the first thought I had too. But to many that's a religious war. Still I try to stay ecumenical. 8-)

[pete]

Try a metal ligature instead of the Rovner! You'll see a significant difference in high tones...
That's the first thought I had too. But to many that's a religious war. Still I try to stay ecumenical. 8-)
Now don't get all GASsy on us, Ro and Gandalfe :P.

If you have a fundamental flaw in your embochure, l1sav, the most expensive mouthpiece, reed and/or ligature isn't going to be of much use. Or, putting it another way, if you already have a decent mouthpiece (you do), a decent ligature (and, seriously, it should just be one that fits right and is positioned properly), and the proper strength of reed that fits your playing style, you should be all good. The "stuff" you can buy is, at best, to make your playing life easier. Rarely will it fix something that's not working right.

Another way of looking at it is from the technical troubleshooting aspect: go for the cheapest, easiest solution, first, unless you're 100% sure what the problem is. You like that C85, but the low register is a bit resistant? Sand your reeds with 000 sandpaper until the notes speak a bit more easily. Loosen that ligature a bit. Reposition it (I think the C85 has a line where the lig should be placed; I don't remember on mine). Almost perfect but not quite? Maybe it's time for a different make of reed or strength. Then maybe a different ligature, if that doesn't pan out.