Amy Dickson ~ Circular Breathing

[Gandalfe]

“Don’t play the saxophone. Let it play you.” ~ Charlie Parker

Have you every heard of Circular Breathing (a technique where you can both inhale and exhale air at the same time) in a music performance?

This video features internationally acclaimed Australian saxophonist Amy Dickson in her music-video for Philip Glass’ Violin Concerto No 1 (1st movement).

Read more: http://biskey7.wordpress.com/2012/03...lar-breathing/

[CHasR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launeddas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFbv01uSwY

cue bagpipe jokes?
i think not !

[MrDibbs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JJmwq7KXQ

[SteveSklar]

I used to be able to circular breathe for a very short period.

Though I've never been truly successful at at (I've never practiced it enough either). I also have never had a good enough reason to learn how as I have been able to play very long passages on a single breathe.

Of course, when I played cello it was a non-issue as I could play a sustained note forever

[SteveSklar]

Took me a few but the only piece which I really had to use circular breathing a little was flight of the bumblebee. But even that piece, the version I had, had short rest instances where one can take a quick and deep breathe.

A few sections of various Concertos I've played are doable with long controlled releases/air support. I think I have much more problem on brass/flute than woodwind for long controlled releases.

[MrDibbs]

I learnt to do it it few years ago when I was travelling round Australia. I bought a didgeridoo and practiced on it a bit every morning for a month.

I don't do it very often but I can get it again with a few minutes practice.

[sideC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0JJmwq7KXQ

Thanks MrDibbs.

Rahsaan was the master of circular breathing, although he didn't call it that. He told me that he learned how to breath through a muscle in his neck. Harry Carney, the great Ellington baritone saxist, used circular breathing to great advantage for many years. Rahsaan was an Ellington disciple, so maybe he was inspired to breathe while playing from listening to Mr. Carney and the other Ellingtonians who were employing this device.

I've used circular breathing in all my years as a saxophonist. My first horn was the baritone, so I realized early the importance of being in control of the air column. So it made sense to me that if I could cheat a little bit and store some air in my cheeks while inhaling into my lungs, what harm would that be? Propell the note with the cheek air while replenishing the main source, the lungs. The cheek air relies on the back pressure from the mouthpiece/reed setup, and while this is going on, you're inhaling into the lungs via the diaphram.

You need to have some chops to do this, the more chops, the more seemless the process. I like to use it in improvisation, when I can. It seems to change the flow of ideas, of my thinking. But it can also be used in the more simple fashion, in connecting the phrases in long passages, and on long holds where taking a breath would be disruptive to continuity.

I think that with practice, anyone should be able to circular breathe to some extent. Believe me, in many ways this learning process is more mental than it is physical.

Julian

[tictactux]

One thing...when I hear a some piece played with circular (solo player) or staggered (section players) breathing, I, as a listener, find myself gasping for air at some point, I don't know what's causing this, but I miss an acoustical hiatus from time to time, a phrase end or something like that. Similar with bagpipe, but interestingly not with strings, in that latter case I don't care.

I had this before I played a wind instrument myself, so it's not just some funny form of empathy.

Am I just weird, or have others felt similar symptoms?

Oh, and I agree with SideC, it's probably more a mental than a physical learning process. Similar with growling (especially on clarinet). Or chug a can of soda.

[Chris J]

Extending the discussion into extended techniques, what do you think of this?

Some circular breathing in there, but lots of other sounds from about 3 minutes?

Last weekend I took part in a small workshop where he was the course organiser - the workshop was "standard" small group playing, I might add!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29Zls8EgJY

Chris

[SteveSklar]

One thing...when I hear a some piece played with circular (solo player) or staggered (section players) breathing, I, as a listener, find myself gasping for air at some point, I don't know what's causing this, but I miss an acoustical hiatus from time to time, a phrase end or something like that. Similar with bagpipe, but interestingly not with strings, in that latter case I don't care.

I had this before I played a wind instrument myself, so it's not just some funny form of empathy.

Am I just weird, or have others felt similar symptoms?

Oh, and I agree with SideC, it's probably more a mental than a physical learning process. Similar with growling (especially on clarinet). Or chug a can of soda.

well alot of clarinet band stuff is an extension/duplication(?) of the violin part. And other instruments of other strings. Composers just put breathing marks or modify it to make it doable.

I think when I studied/played Romantic era music in college it was where long flowing melodies were the norm. Where breathing became an art (and circular breathing a nicity). But on strings of course it's all about bowing technique to create a fluid tonal motif.

I think it is ingrained in my head that long flowing non-stop strings sound nice while on wind instruments that breaks to create shorter motifs are nice. Of course in jazz silence is part of the excitement of creating the next motif. On piano, well, fluidity is key dependent upon the era of music being played.

I love transposing music, actually I found out years ago that a piano book of music contains tons of music and the melody, harmony and everything in between. Whereas if you buy a saxophone book of music you pay 4x $$$ and get 1/10 the music and only the melody. Reading string music on a woodwind I have learned to create phrasing where I can breathe .. I never really thought about it until now.

But now that I'm older I found a great advantage of strings (even electric). [1] you don't run out of air, [2] you can drink a can of pop (coffee, et all) and not worry about anything.

[clarnibass]

The "problem" tictactux described is intereting. I guess it's hard to say if the "problem" was the music or some psychological issue. Just like any music, music with circular breathing can be lousy. Of course the music can be great without phrase endings, etc. so if that is an issue in principal (i.e. regardless of what the music is specifically) then it is a psychological one of the listener (which isn't a bad thing, it can a good thing to know what you like and what you don't, while keeping an open mind).

I use circular breathing very often, I play with many others who use it too and I go to many concerts where others use it. IMO it is really not necessary to learn circular breathing. It is only necessary if you want to play things that require it, and some players do. It is also good to learn because it can create new ideas that you hadn't considered before because you couldn't do them. If you know you are not interested in playing anything that needs it, I guess just don't learn it, no problem. I know many excellent players who don't know how to do it and it's not a problem at all. But there is a lot of really great music that wouldn't be possible to play without it.

Sorry about the recording and video quality, pretty lousy, but here is a short solo where I used circular breathing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3A55X6XktI

There are many great players who use circular breathing for a very long time now. some of the best are Evan Parker, Ned Rothenberg and Louis Scalvis. There are many more but I just mentioned these ones. They don't use just to play a longer phrase than they could, but to create their own music.

But now that I'm older I found a great advantage of strings (even electric). [1] you don't run out of air, [2] you can drink a can of pop (coffee, et all) and not worry about anything.

I don't really have those problems with woodwinds. For (1) there is circular breathing. For (2) life is too short

[Gandalfe]

The video you linked to below was hard to hear. I like this one much better! Impressive!

Nitai Levi plays "Myth of the Cave" Circular breathing solo

[CHasR]

The ability to shape and contrast phrases on bagpipe is what separates good pipers from great ones. We have to do it all with finger technique ! After some critical listening to the 'creme de la creme' pipers, (Gordon Duncan, Donald MacPherson, Gordon Walker, David Power, Paddy Keenan, Chris Ormston, Bernard Blanc, Eric Montbel, Pietro Ricci, for a start) there'll never be any doubt when one phrase ends and the other begins.

[clarnibass]

Thanks Gandalfe, but I don't like that one so much... It was the first time we played this very long piece in a concert plus the first time I played in a big international festival abroad, so I was super nervous.......
Also the sound is kind of trebley for some reason.

[oboesax]

My daughter learned circular breathing first on the oboe when she was about 14. It's useful there as a number of pieces for oboe are written with long phrases. One really can't perform the Strauss oboe concerto well without circular breathing. Then she transferred that skill to the saxophone. She is planning to perform the Phillip Glass violin concerto on soprano sax at her recital in June.

[pete]

As a reminder,

Quoting Wikipedia, "In 1997, a Guinness World Record was set for longest held musical note. Kenny G used circular breathing to sustain an E-flat on a saxophone for 45 minutes and 47 seconds."

I wonder if you can set separate records for separate notes ....

[MrDibbs]

As a reminder,



I wonder if you can set separate records for separate notes ....

What an odd note to pick. I'd have chosen B (C# on soprano) so that I didn't have to use any fingers.