Prettiest Sax of the Moment

[kevgermany]

Maybe the Akustik stuff would be better in a dedicated thread.

Just a word on VEB - it's a german acronym for Volkseigener Betrieb literally translated as people's enterprise - or better as nationally owned enterprise. And the research today reminded me I'd been using the term wrongly.

In East German times, there were many VEBs, and Weltklang were made by the 'VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik', later to be known as B&S, while the Akustiks were made by a post war VEB, 'VEB Sächsische Musikinstrumentenfabrik Klingenthal' that was the successor to the Ernst Hess (Heß) instrument makers. This, along with other VEBs became merged into the 'VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik'.

[pete]

Your demand is my wish ... or something like that. Continued discussion on Akustik at http://woodwindforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4260.

[pete]

Super DES. (Note that there's a full nude woman engraved on the bell.)

Never heard of the make/model and I don't care. It's too pretty. The green rollers are a nice touch. I wonder if Vito got the inspiration for their low Eb/C keys from this horn.

[pete]

Julius Keilwerth King Modell Lus.

There are two variants of this model. I had only seen the first.

Anyhow, this model with the lots of loops for keyguards is for sale through here for 1150 Euros. There are quite a few uncommon horns on that website ....

[kevgermany]

Julius Keilwerth King Modell Lus.

There are two variants of this model. I had only seen the first.

Anyhow, this model with the lots of loops for keyguards is for sale through here for 1150 Euros. There are quite a few uncommon horns on that website ....

There's an alto for sale here (no loops): http://www.ebay.de/itm/280896009750?...84.m1423.l2649

Failed to sell last week at the same prices he's asking this week.

Didn't realise these were rare. Amati made? (That's a qustion, not a suggestion).

[pete]

If Amati was involved in any way, it'd be more accurate to say, "Amati assembled." These horns do have the standard, "Best in the World," stamp on them and the G#'s engraved, "Keilwerth," so that heavily implies that there was no outside involvement. Remember that Amati wasn't shy about keeping their name off of Tonekings.

Dating could be easy if I had found one of these with an actual serial number. Without one, I'd have to decide between a few things:

* Is a Keilwerth "King" model an "entry level" horn made with an older design, with the New King and Toneking being higher models made with a newer design?
* Did the "King" models disappear around s/n 13000 or are there newer ones?
* Does the wire key guard automagically = old? I've seen a lot of Germanic horns in the past few days and I think that it can be argued that wire key guards do not = old, but anywhere from 1900ish to 1960.

I'm still playing around with Germanic instruments, but I do *think* I can make a very good argument that there were only a couple companies that produced new designs, kinda like Conn, Buescher, Martin and others in the US did with stencils. It's harder than with US horns because you've got the *possibility* that the keywork was customized.

Research will continue.

[Groovekiller]

I don't think any saxophone was ever designed to play badly. I've already remarked about seeing Bundy II saxes that played well.

I just finished repadding one of the dreaded "Shooting Star" Conns, but this one was an early model, made in Elkhart circa 1965. The intonation was terrific, and the tone wasn't bad either. The horn had been assembled by workers who had decades of experience, and it showed.

[pete]

Andrieu Freres Standarluxe.

As you can see from how I've classified this horn, it's quite probably a Raymond Dubois Universel stencil: you can start comparing features like the socket receiver and the address.

Pity it doesn't have the extra billion keys like other Essors,

[kevgermany]

What about this one?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Altes-Saxopho...item4d02577a78

And no, I didn't post it to get another stencil discussion going.... Don't agree the Seller's dating, though - more like 50s or 60s.

[pete]

That's a nice looking horn, kev.

I'm attaching a sample ....

[pete]

I don't think any saxophone was ever designed to play badly. I've already remarked about seeing Bundy II saxes that played well.

First, I've played a few Bundy IIs that did play pretty well. Sometimes I do enjoy making a joke out of the ingrained idea that Bundys suck, but I've mentioned one of their biggest strengths is that you can subject 'em to a lot of damage and they still play pretty OK.

Second, I don't necessarily think someone designed a particular horn to be bad, but how the design was implemented makes the horn bad. As an example, take a decent horn design. Take a few quick measurements -- you're on a schedule, you know, so don't double check. Use the cheapest possible materials. Some of those details that look expensive or difficult to implement, g'head and axe those. Finally, have unskilled labor that makes $1 a year fabricate and assemble the horn. So, you've just gone from an SML Gold Medal (a pro horn that was designed extremely well) to a Heimer (which is an Asian copy of the Gold Medal).

I also believe that the reverse is true: no matter how good the materials you're using in fabricating the instrument, if the horn just has a bad design, it's going to be a bad horn. I think this is extremely rare, though. You might be able to argue this about the Grafton: made with the best stuff available at the time, but it's got an odd feel to it and they're not durable. (Of course, you also have to remember that the Grafton was never intended as a pro instrument.)

[Helen]

As far as the Triumpf goes, it looks an awful lot like an early JK. (Before they moved their chromatic F# key to the side from the back.) So yes, maybe it could be late 1930s, or more likely 1940s. Since we don't see the right thumb rest area, we can't see if it has a Best In the World or JK engraving, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd go with JK. The right pinkie key shapes and the shape of the spacer at the top of the octave key lever, where it connects to the next rod (where Selmer had their legendary Cigar Cutter circle), these are just 2 of the things that make me think JK. (Although you didn't want to get into another stencil discussion. I did anyway.... Sorry...)

As far as prettiness goes, yes, these early JKs were among the prettiest of their horns. IMHO of course...

[pete]

Renoux Bourges Super Rex.

Another one for sale on ebay.fr.

[pete]

OK, I'm about 7 years late to the party, but I think the B&S Chicago horns look fantastic. I'll see if I can find one in silver plate.

[kevgermany]

OK, I'm about 7 years late to the party, but I think the B&S Chicago horns look fantastic. I'll see if I can find one in silver plate.

Me too!

[pete]

I went semi-nuts with my Gallery yesterday, which was a day off for most folks. I essentially went where Google took me and I ended up seeing all these newer B&S horns.

FWIW, I've never heard anyone say that they're fantabulous horns and I have heard of finish problems, but they are nice eye candy.

[kevgermany]

Don't see them often here, but when you do they go for high prices. Nice to look at! Pity they went under like so many others.

[pete]

Really nice Selmer Adolphe Sax. The silver plate looks brand new.

[kevgermany]

That's too good to be true. But... Straight, not curly keyguards. With curved, I think I'd have sold my car..... Thanks Pete.

[pete]

Yah. As mentioned : Selmer Adolphe Sax.

About 1000 or so of the Adolphe Sax horns made right after Selmer bought them are different and the popular reasoning says they're different because they're really made by AE Sax.

I did a bit of comparing on the Selmer version of the Adolphe Sax horns and I seem to remember saying that they look an awful lot like the Selmer Super Series, so if you like the SSS, there's really no reason not to buy a Selmer-made Adolphe Sax. In this case, though, it's a bit pricey. Very pretty, but pricey.

[pete]

These aren't overwhelmingly pretty, but it's a nice photo:

Three Selmer Modele 26 "series" horns, soprano alto and tenor. Here's the eBay ad.

[pete]

This is the perfect horn.

1. It's Helen bait: a German tenor sax.
2. It's pretty.
3. It's cheap. 100 Euros (will ship international, too).

eBay ad.

Hammerschmidt Klingsor. I dunno if the extra dab of color in the keyguards is original (Helen, you may wish to elaborate), but it does add a bit of pop.

[kevgermany]

I'm sure I've seen those red lined keyguards before. Not sure if it was theis sax in another auction, or another similar example.

[Helen]

I love those red racing stripes. When you play fast passages, if give the illusion that you're playing even faster.

Are they original? Well I've never seen them in all the hundreds of Klingsors that I have seen, or any of the ones I have included in my Klinsgor Gallery on my website. That's not to say that a few weren't. Perhaps they are like VIII designation on the Conn 6M. Or not... Maybe they were just a custom feature that were available. That said, I have never seen mention of them in any of the Hammerschmidt brochures that I have read.

[kevgermany]

I'll probably regret posting this cos I want it, but :

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Huller-Tenors...torefresh=true