Timis

[pete]

Yes, I've had a "duh" moment.

I've been doing some slight research on a sax brand called "Timis." Not only did I know that they were reputed to have been from the Romania/Hungary area, but I've posted more than once in a thread here about Gheorghe's horn and his work.

So, as I said, a "duh" moment.

Anyhow, does anyone here happen to have any info about the Timis company?

[kevgermany]

afik made in Timisoara in Romania. A brand of Arta Guban, also made in Timisoara. Some may be imported stencils from Amati and/or B&Sl.

[pete]

Thanks, but I don't necessarily think that the Timis brand is from Arta Guba. Could be, but I don't have enough horns to make that comparison. That's why I'm asking the Taragato bunch. All I can say at this point is that Timis and Timisora seem to be cities or "areas" in Romania/Hungary.

[kevgermany]

Thanks, but I don't necessarily think that the Timis brand is from Arta Guba. Could be, but I don't have enough horns to make that comparison. That's why I'm asking the Taragato bunch. All I can say at this point is that Timis and Timisora seem to be cities or "areas" in Romania/Hungary.

I'll do some more scratching, but does this help?

http://www.saxophonforum.de/forum/vi...topic_id=12716

[Gheorghe]

Thanks, but I don't necessarily think that the Timis brand is from Arta Guba. Could be, but I don't have enough horns to make that comparison. That's why I'm asking the Taragato bunch. All I can say at this point is that Timis and Timisora seem to be cities or "areas" in Romania/Hungary.

Timisoara is a city in modern day Romania (that is where the 89 revolution started). It used to at one point belong to Hungary, and its Hungarian name is Temesvar. But today it is Romanian. I don't know anything about the Timis company, other than the fact that even Romanians look down upon their taragots and go for a Stowasser whenever they can.

George

[kevgermany]

this thread may help (esp page 2):

http://saxwelt.de/index.php/forum/we...i?limitstart=0

[pete]

Does Stowasser still exist? I haven't done any research on them.

[kevgermany]

I don't think so.

http://hungaria.org/hal/folklor/tarogato/

The above site is old/out of date. I've read about the Hammerschmidt link before. afik Hammerschmidt no longer make Taragotas, unless they're to special order. Not listed on their web site:
http://www.karl-hammerschmidt-klarin...larinetten.htm

Good history here:
http://www.hangoskola.hu/tarogato1999.htm

This may be of interest:
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Tarogato.html

This link says Stowasser closed down under communism
http://wikipedia.qwika.com/de2en/T%C3%A1rogat%C3%B3



Look what I found:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAROGATO-Bb-...-/150866498130

[MrDibbs]

Does Stowasser still exist? I haven't done any research on them.

No. Not since the factory burnt down in 1917.

[pete]

I'm pretty sure that the WA Stowasser contrabass sax I've seen is post-1917. They also had branches in both Verona and Grasliz. I doubt they'd close down after just losing one plant. Hey, Conn and Buffet recovered after their factories burnt down.

'Course it could be that they were bombed out of existence in WWI.

[pete]

Did a bit of research -- lunch hour's only so long 'n' stuff. Helen, our sax CE, has some info on Stowasser and says it was taken over by the Amati collective after WWII. Amati's German website confirms that. (No, I don't know why Amati's translations have different/more info on them.) Also, the Taragato in the eBay ad kevgermany lists is described as a "new Stowasser."

The only other thing I remember about W. Stowasser, off the top of my head, is that his name's "Wenzel."

Research will continue.

[Gheorghe]

Also, the Taragato in the eBay ad kevgermany lists is described as a "new Stowasser."


Research will continue.

The tarogato (taragot in Romanian) in the eBay link is not a genuine Stowasser. The seller writes that it's a "Stowasser model", which could describe just about any modern tarogato copy (such as mine ).

It doesn't mean it's not a good instrument, it could quite well be. But a real Stowasser would probably start a bit higher (by a thousand or 2).

George

[MrDibbs]

I'm pretty sure that the WA Stowasser contrabass sax I've seen is post-1917. They also had branches in both Verona and Grasliz. I doubt they'd close down after just losing one plant. Hey, Conn and Buffet recovered after their factories burnt down.

'Course it could be that they were bombed out of existence in WWI.

This site claims the factory burned down in 1917. http://www.11thmuse.com/Comparison.html

I've seen that mentioned other places too.

I think there must have been more than one Stowasser. The tarogato guy is Janos Stowasser.

[SOTSDO]

Strategic bombing (i.e., aerial bombing of non-operational military targets) was so light on the ground in World War I as to be non-existent. I will categorically state that no instrument manufacturer (on either side of the lines) was put out of business by aerial bombing.

The most effective strategic bombing was conducted against London and other cities in the neighborhood by the German Navy (using Zeppelins) and German Army (with a few stray Zeppelin sorties plus several hundred by twin engined Gotha G-class aircraft and a couple of dozen sorties by Staaken Reisen ("Giant) or R-class aircraft, huge five and six engined planes that never suffered a combat loss during the entire war). Other than one lucky hit with a thousand pound bomb on an newspaper, they never put any industry out of service.

(Similar strikes were flown against Paris, and with similar results. Very little strategic bombing was attempted against Italy, Romania or Russia, the other major members of the Entente alliance.)

The Entente flew very few strategic strikes prior to 1918, and what they did fly in that year were with small, single engined aircraft. Not one German or Austrian factory was put out of operation for even one shift as a result.

A much more substantial effort would have been mounted in 1919 if the war had continued, with large multi-engine aircraft based upon an Italian design from Caproni. However, it is doubtful that the Entente would have had any more effect through such efforts than that performed by the Central Powers. Aircraft of all types from the period were just not up to lifting tons of bombs over long distances and against opposition - too frail, too short legged, and just not enough lift capacity.

It is remotely possible that the home of the saxophone, Dinant Belgium, may have been shelled at one point or another during the war. However, the Germans held the place, with the front lines far from Dinant, for almost the entire war.

Push comes to shove, "strategic bombing" during World War I was pretty much a non-starter, useful mostly for the diversion of air defense efforts from the main fronts. Of course, in World War II, it was a much different proposition.

In both World War I and World War II, musical instrument manufacturing was largely diverted to the manufacture of artillery fuse components and optical instrument manufacturing - the precision machining needed to make a horn is easily adapted to such purposes.

[pete]

Does Stowasser still exist? I haven't done any research on them.

No. Not since the factory burnt down in 1917.

I'm pretty sure that the WA Stowasser contrabass sax I've seen is post-1917. They also had branches in both Verona and Grasliz. I doubt they'd close down after just losing one plant. Hey, Conn and Buffet recovered after their factories burnt down.

'Course it could be that they were bombed out of existence in WWI.

This site claims the factory burned down in 1917. http://www.11thmuse.com/Comparison.html

I've seen that mentioned other places too.

I think there must have been more than one Stowasser. The tarogato guy is Janos Stowasser.

Yes, I see the problem. As you can see, I was talking WA Stowasser and you were talking Janos. I neglected writing "WA" in my first post regarding Stowasser. Nebber mind.

Anyhow, I'm still mining for TIMIS info.

SOTSDO, thanks for the history. I more-or-less assumed that, anyway, because aircraft weren't really a big deal in WWI. I also didn't use a phrase like "bombing/shelling, etc." and that's my fault. I will endeavor to be a bit more specific in the future, as I've been slipping a little, lately. Taking too many of my super happy pills ....

[kymarto]

A bit of miscellaneous info on this "new Stowasser"--It is being marketed by the same eBay seller who is constantly putting old Romanian taragotok up for auction. What is interesting is that the keywork is not that of the classic Stowasser 19865 model. The left-hand pinky keys are the older rounded type without rollers, and there is no alt Eb key, which I find a serios omission--although both earlier Stowasser and some 19865s were also made without the alt Eb.

Listening to the intonation on the demo video it sounds reasonable but by no means stellar. Apparently Stowassers themselves varied quite a bit. I ran across a post somewhere where someone described doing bore measurements of three Stowassers, and they varied widely.

These "new Stowassers" look reasonably well made with decent wood, but one doesn't know about the quality of the keywork without having one in the hands. I seriously doubt they rival real Stowassers, but they might well be a big cut above the usual Timis instruments.

The more I play my Stowasser the more I understand why they are prized. The Reményi is a nice instrument of high quality, but it just does not have the response of the former. The bore profile is totally different (much wider at the top, but with a narrower cone angle), giving it more focus, but making it more capricious, especially from E downwards. The Stowasser is just smooth and even top to bottom.