What kind of Clarinet

Dave Dolson said:
Steve: Just to keep this going, I'm not so sure that the body material (Rosewood, Grenadilla, silver-plated brass, hard rubber, etc.) makes much difference in how a clarinet sounds. This same discussion (argument?) goes on all the time with saxophones, and so it is with clarinets.
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I'd say that's the case with ALL instruments, not just sax and clarinet.

I've mentioned, as far as flutes go, there seems to be some evidence that wall thickness and the amount of toneholes make a larger difference in sound than material.

IMO, people are trying to compare a wind instrument to a violin or other stringed instruments that happen to have a resonating chamber. The material that the resonating chamber is made out of really does make a difference for these instruments, but a clarinet is not a violin.

FWIW, my overall opinion isn't that the material makes the difference for clarinets but it's because most professional quality clarinets are made out of wood that people think wood = better sounding. They should be thinking professional model > student model.

I *believe* someone here mentioned that one of the Buffet student instruments has the same bore as their R13 (the only measurements I can find on the B12 is 14.65mm and the R13 at 14.60, but the other specs are quite close and SteveSklar sees measurements of 14.64, so YMMV).

And the Buffet student horns are pretty nice.

Metal? I dunno. The horn I had was a Pan American. Not exactly professional-level. There have been a whole bunch of pro-quality silver or silver plated horns.

It's not the material, it's the model. Hey, who cares what it's made out of if it plays like garbage? (Unless you enjoy playing Garbage, that is.)

I've already mentioned the importance of a good mouthpiece, several times. IMO, a good mouthpiece is at least equal to choosing which horn you want, if not more so. Hey, my C85 makes my wife's 1981 Selmer Signet sound like a Series 9. It's made several plastic horns sing, too.
 
pete said:
I'd say that's the case with ALL instruments, not just sax and clarinet.
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I think you meant all wind instruments? For some instruments the material is critical for the sound (percussion, strings, etc.).

pete said:
FWIW, my overall opinion isn't that the material makes the difference for clarinets but it's because most professional quality clarinets are made out of wood that people think wood = better sounding. They should be thinking professional model > student model.

I *believe* someone here mentioned that one of the Buffet student instruments has the same bore as their R13 (the only measurements I can find on the B12 is 14.65mm and the R13 at 14.60, but the other specs are quite close and SteveSklar sees measurements of 14.64, so YMMV).

And the Buffet student horns are pretty nice.
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You are right in the first paragraph. But I don't know what someone here mentioned but it is not true that the student Buffets have the same bore as the R13. The actual measurement is different according ro Buffet, and also considering how different the same model can be, and how these clarinets are made (i.e. not the most accurate) then the bores are very different. I think the student models are made at a different factory with different tools.

But yes, the student Buffets play very nicely. Too bad their build quality isn't on the same level....
 
I think i've mistakenly said in the recent past that the B12 are similar to the R13s. But they are made in Germany vs France.

The E11s has plastic insert toneholes and are also (until very recently) made in Germany too

the R13s of yore were all hand reamed .. so minor diviations exist. Plus the bore is not a perfect circle... being wood and all I take a visual avg of a couple measurements or simply use a bore tool which measures the smallest diameter.

matter fact this morning .. i was measuring tonehole widths of a Selmer Series II alto sax .. it wasn't close to being a perfect circle either on all of them !!
 
clarnibass said:
I think you meant all wind instruments? For some instruments the material is critical for the sound (percussion, strings, etc.)
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Yes, you got the idea I was trying to convey. No, I do believe that all instrumentalists argue about whether $material makes a difference in how their instrument plays.

But I don't know what someone here mentioned but it is not true that the student Buffets have the same bore as the R13.
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As I said, "I *believe* someone here mentioned ...." that was Steve (see post above this one). And I even posted that the bore measurements, according to Buffet, were different. Maybe they're not exactly the same (.05mm isn't that much) because people would stop buying R13s!

As far as the quality thing goes, again it's professional model > student model. Just think about it: if the horn is the highest quality thing you can produce, it's naturally supposed to be your professional model.

I suppose you could argue that Yamaha (or someone) will make the highest quality instrument out of the lowest cost materials and then call it "student model", but I doubt this is generally the case. Student models are always lower quality than pro models from the same manufacturer. Yes, the student models can be outstanding, but the pro models will be better. Hey, the Yamaha 23 is a great sax. The Custom 875 is better. Not necessarily worth the difference in price, but that's a different discussion.
 
Starting to see the light or maybe used is good

Hi All,

Well my wife (a trumpet player) has convinced me to go and look at some used R13's. I think this is a good idea for me. I think I was a bit blinded by the light of the rosewood Patricola instead of what do I need and want.

I'm stopping at a wind shop in New Jersey and i'm going to try a couple of R13's used. Some as old as before 1950 and others as new as 2004. She's (and most of the people who answered my original post) are right. The R13 is a great instrument and, in the future if I really want a rosewood Patricola I can always sell the Beffet and get a new rosewood one.

I believe that once I play it and own it I will keep the Buffet. It's the best for the money right now.

Steve
 
stevethemusicman said:
....... try a couple of R13's used. Some as old as before 1950 and others as new as 2004.
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Just remember the R13s actually started in 1955. Anything before that is usually a pro clarinet, but not the R13s specific polycylindrical bore. I have a 51xxx and a 55xxx R13 both made in 1955.

My 1950 Buffet is not an R13.

scroll down a bit to the "Pre R13" and R13 for mechanical keywork comparison
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnBuffet.htm#Identification
 
Steve: Thanks for that link. I checked my oldish R-13 against the serial number list . . . . 1962 vintage AND mine has the flat spring under G#/C#. While it is a fine instrument (albeit with cloudy-looking nickel keywork) I prefer my RC Prestige even better. DAVE
 
Maybe Found a Clarinet

Hi All,

I think I found a clarinet to purchase. I went to Dillion Music in NJ. See http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/ProductPage/43081.aspx. They said that it is R13 but when I go back I'll check to see it on the barrel. I was actually looking at one from 2004 for 1700 dollars but I liked the feel of this one which is 895.

The only caveat is that it has what I see as a hairline crack, if even a crack, on one of the sections. They are bringing the clarinet over to their other store where they have a camera to look into the barrell to see if it is a real crack and make sure it doesn't go all the way through.

This is a better price than I thought I'd get and I also did not think I would like a used instrument. Well I do and hopefully I'll have it in a day or two.

Steve
 
If you were referring to the photo in the link, I think that open space is where the mouthpiece goes, not a second barrel. DAVE
 
67mm barrel, might need another to play at 440.
 
My RC Prestige came with only one barrel - new. But if new R-13's came with two, the fact that the used one being considered has only one barrel is not a fatal flaw in the deal. Clarinet barrels are fairly easy to come by - I have several for my Buffets.

I agree that 67mm may be too long for proper ensemble tuning, at least it sure would be for me. DAVE
 
Concern about the possible crack

stevethemusicman said:
Hi All,

I think I found a clarinet to purchase. I went to Dillion Music in NJ. See http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/ProductPage/43081.aspx. They said that it is R13 but when I go back I'll check to see it on the barrel. I was actually looking at one from 2004 for 1700 dollars but I liked the feel of this one which is 895.

The only caveat is that it has what I see as a hairline crack, if even a crack, on one of the sections. They are bringing the clarinet over to their other store where they have a camera to look into the barrell to see if it is a real crack and make sure it doesn't go all the way through.

This is a better price than I thought I'd get and I also did not think I would like a used instrument. Well I do and hopefully I'll have it in a day or two.

Steve
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Hi all,

I'm concerned about the possible crack in the clarinet. Let me tell you what I saw. There was about a 5 inch long line next to the keys and another 1 inch line a next to the long one. It almost looks as though it could be a grove made by something like a pen but not quite.

On first look, with a flashlight, the repair person could not see a crack inside so they are bringing over the scope from the brass store to look closer at it.

This is a consignment Clarinet so of course there is no warrenty with it. I'm starting to feel funny about this. The dealer seems to be reputable and has a good name with brass but it is easy for them to say it's not a crack when it might be a crack and the first time, if ever, it gets a cold shock. I doubt I will ever get to give it a shock. I did used to see cracks when I played in the Army Band and we did parades in the winter. I made it a point never to take my buffet and took the Army's plastic Clarinets out to the parades when it was cold.

Any thoughts, concerns etc would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve: In my opinion, if the wood appears to have an opening, regardless of whether or not it is all the way through, that would likely be future trouble. On the flip side, I know cracks can be repaired and a repaired clarinet can still play.

But why buy this one when there are plenty of good, playable R-13's on the market?

While I am a Buffet fan, I acknowledge there are several good brands out there. I wouldn't limit my search to just used Buffets. If, for instance, I found a reasonable price on a new hi-end Yamaha, I'd sure consider that horn, assuming that all the factors we've previously discussed are in play. DAVE
 
Not getting that clarinet but maybe another

Hi All,

I decided not to get the clarinet that I looked at. It is not an R13 and the crack, although they say it doesn't go all the way through, I don't trust getting one with any defects like that.

There is another on their site http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/ProductPage/503732.aspx that I tried. It needs a little adjustment where the two parts of the keys go together. When you press the key down it lifts up the lever on the split. Pardon me for not remembering the note keys but it's been 40 years since I've played.

Any and all comments are welcomed.

Thanks,

Steve
 
Steve: I'd like to think that a competent music store would make sure the instrument is in perfect playing shape before selling it to you. Did you discuss this perceived problem with them? If so, what was their response? DAVE
 
Dave Dolson said:
Steve: I'd like to think that a competent music store would make sure the instrument is in perfect playing shape before selling it to you. Did you discuss this perceived problem with them? If so, what was their response? DAVE
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Hi Dave,

Dillion music has an untarnished reputation. Actually my wife Kaye brought her trumpet to their brass store and they did a wonderful job of cleaning it. Steve Dillion has a great reputation and I do trust them. Some day if you are interested, I'll tell you the story about her Bach Strad and how she got it and what it really is. It's an interesting story to say the least.

Dillion music did check the non-R13 Clarinet and used a scope to see if the crack went through. They called me and told me it did not go through and I believe them. However that being said, the Clarinet is on consignent and they did not do any work on it and, it is still not an R13 with no guarentees that the crack will not spread.

I probably wouldn't have a problem with that Clarinet but I do want an R13. The cracked one is only $895.00 and the R13 from 2004 is $1695.00. I'd rather spend the lesser amount but I also want a Clarinet that starts off with no cracks :p.

Thanks,

Steve
 
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Steve: I was referring to your latest discussion - the R-13 for which you described the lever connecting the keywork on the upper and lower joints maybe being out of adjustment.

No slam against the store you mentioned - just that if there was an adjustment problem, they'd most likely make sure it was fixed before selling it to you. I thought it curious that you perceived a problem with that $1695 clarinet (by mentioning this lever), yet didn't say anything about what they'd said about it. I sure HOPED they didn't intend to sell it for that price and leave you with an adjustment problem.

Assuming they'd make sure you were happy before you bought it; if you liked the horn, buy it. And if you don't buy it, why not? DAVE
 
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