Are there any genuine bass clarinets in C?

PoweredWindows

Hey... new user here (couldn't find a welcome page so I said screw it). I've been playing piano for nearly 20 years, keyboard/synth for nearly 15, and organ for just over 12. Even though I could technically play just about anything with the right keyboard, I've lately been thinking about getting back into acoustic stuff. I used to play trombone, but that was more or less forced on me even though I wanted to play alto saxophone. I tried it, and it mainly didn't work out due to all of the transposing stuff.

Now I'm re-considering some odd years later but with a new condition - none of the instruments I pick up can be transposing... except at the octave. (I'm okay with that stuff) Among the other instruments I'm considering is the bass clarinet, but so far all I've found is B-flat pitched ones and an occasional E flat. There are some that have a 'low C' extension but these end up being B flat anyways. Yet I know that there are models out there that are pitched only an octave below concert pitch... and I want one.

Can any of you help me out?
 
I can't say that I have either seen or heard of one. Back in the 1800's there were a lot of instruments that were made in concert pitch, but that was mainly for the marching bands of the day. Bass clarinet is hard enough to play sitting down, let alone trying to march with one. There are a lot of C melody saxophones floating around, although I don't think anyone still makes them.

I'm not sure what you mean about problems with transposing. If you are playing in a group, the music will be written in the transposed key. If you are playing solo and reading piano music, you can just read the music as is, unless you are trying to play with a backing track.
 
Since the clarinet isn't familiar to you to begin with, just learn to read bass clef in concert pitch. It's a fairly common way for it to be notated and any bass clarinetist of any proficiency can read concert pitch too.
 
Carl H. said:
Since the clarinet isn't familiar to you to begin with, just learn to read bass clef in concert pitch. It's a fairly common way for it to be notated and any bass clarinetist of any proficiency can read concert pitch too.
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I already know how to read bass clef in concert pitch - have played plenty of bass clef parts over the years
 
saxhound said:
I can't say that I have either seen or heard of one.

I'm not sure what you mean about problems with transposing. If you are playing in a group, the music will be written in the transposed key. If you are playing solo and reading piano music, you can just read the music as is, unless you are trying to play with a backing track.
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There seem to be a few advertised ones on eBay though they're mainly from China and I'm not sure on how good the sellers' English is - have been asking them to play a C scale to 'check'.

I do want to play with a group but aside from it, a contrabassoon, either a heckelphone or a bass oboe, and a pedal steel guitar, all the stuff will be electronic, and aside from the pedal steel guitar I would potentially play all the parts, so in a way I would have a backing track (that I wrote myself)
 
@Carl H. Then I've never been proficient on bass clarinet :p
I didn't see bass clef often enough in my playing career and in my singing career -- I'm a bass, but have sang much higher -- I more matched my singing to the general difference between the notes, so I'm a bit slow to tell you notes on the bass clef. IIRC, that's kinda how the Suzuki method goes.

PW, it sounds like what you're trying to do is record a backing track on a DAW (digital audio workstation; I don't have a preference but Cakewalk is free and is very highly rated) or individually with a sampler of some kind (say, Kontakt) to, say, a multi-track recorder. If you're going to be using a DAW or sampler, all you need is the normal playing range of each respective instrument transposed into concert pitch. That's somewhat easy. Just Google it. Here's the article for bass clarinet on Wikipedia, for instance. I'd also recommend listening to some recordings of those instruments to get better acquainted with how they sound.

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If you're not doing digital, I'm relatively positive that you aren't going to find a bass clarinet in C except for before and right around when the Boehm/Klose fingering system came out, which was around 1838 (off the top of my head). I know there are bass clarinets in A. Alto and contralto clarinets are in Eb. Contralto (or, if you prefer, Eb contrabass) and Bb contrabass clarinets can have fingering to low C. Note that this is low C for the instrument's pitch, not "low C, concert pitch."

There are a few Asian companies that produce genuine C saxophones, both soprano and "C melody tenor." I've seen at least a couple Asian companies that say they've got new F saxophones and I've seen ads from Asian companies that will custom make an F saxophone for you. There's also a probability that Orsi would custom build, too. Selmer's a possibility, as well, for C soprano/tenor horns.

In any event, buying all the instruments you have listed would be in the high $100K to low $200K range.
 
I've played bass clef in Bb, bass clef concert pitch, and had the option of bass clef in A - which I passed on since there was a perfectly readable Bb part included (plus I am not Terry S. (rip) ).

If it's a new instrument to the OP just learn it in concert pitch and get on with it.
 
Bass clarinets in C existed, but I haven't heard of any younger than the late 19th century. There's photos of an 1870s Buffet online that I'll find after the recital I'm waiting on to start. Do what everyone above said, as finding one is near impossible, given their rarity.
 
Pete, you are partially correct in that I do have DAWs I want to work with, along with mainline synthesizers etc. What I ALSO want to do is integrate the bass clarinet, contrabassoon, and heckelphone (or else bass oboe) into my music as well just like the other things. I do want to add effects like reverb, distortion etc through pedals, but I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of having to pitch-correct the bass clarinet parts, and it would be almost confusing with said bass clarinet playing live
 
If you get a free program like Musescore, you can enter the entire bass clarinet part and transpose with a couple clicks, then print out the sheet for your bass clarinet player. Easy-peasy. I know you can do a pitch shift in your DAW -- I haven't gotten far enough to know how to do this, I just know it can be done -- but it's not going to print notes for your player(s) to play.

You've got several ways to enter notes into Musescore. Easiest, for me, is to press a key for the note duration, then press a key on a MIDI keyboard. If you've got mad keyboard skillz or have another MIDI device that you have teh same skillz, you can just play in the part and Musescore will fill in the notes. Of course, unless you're really, really exact with the beat, you're going to be doing some editing. (I don't know when Musescore gained this feature, but that was the major difference between MS and higher-powered apps, like Finale or Sibelius, imo. I'm really, really, really happy about that. Mind you, Finale had these options 30 years ago.)

There's also stuff like this, which transposes in real time (not free, but has a free trial). I've not tried it, but you've made me curious about it!

As a final note, a lot of players can do at least some transpositions in their head and/or with fun tricks. I'm more a "trick" guy. You have a piece written in bass clef for a concert pitch instrument and you want me to play it on my Eb baritone sax? Switch the clef from bass to treble and add three sharps to the key signature and play the notes as written. So, :BassClef::Space3: (concert E) becomes :TrebleClef::Space3:. Add three sharps to the key sig. Ah! a C#.
 
@TrueTone Not to steal your thunder, I Googled. Here's a Buffet C bass from 1837. I think we can all thank Adolphe Sax that bass clarinet players don't have to play anything like that anymore.
Here's a Buffet in A from 1929.

Please note that some bass clarinets listed as being in "B" or "B?" -- like this one -- are probably Bb basses that are high pitch. Modern pitch is either concert A=440hz or 442hz. High pitch was A=457hz, which is almost a half step higher. There were so many competing standards in the 19th century and earlier, I'm not going to even try to list them. I will mention that high pitch didn't go away, completely, until about 1970.

There's also the possibility of translator error. In German, B is Bb and H is B.
 
pete said:
If you get a free program like Musescore, you can enter the entire bass clarinet part and transpose with a couple clicks, then print out the sheet for your bass clarinet player. Easy-peasy. I know you can do a pitch shift in your DAW -- I haven't gotten far enough to know how to do this, I just know it can be done -- but it's not going to print notes for your player(s) to play.

You've got several ways to enter notes into Musescore. Easiest, for me, is to press a key for the note duration, then press a key on a MIDI keyboard. If you've got mad keyboard skillz or have another MIDI device that you have teh same skillz, you can just play in the part and Musescore will fill in the notes. Of course, unless you're really, really exact with the beat, you're going to be doing some editing. (I don't know when Musescore gained this feature, but that was the major difference between MS and higher-powered apps, like Finale or Sibelius, imo. I'm really, really, really happy about that. Mind you, Finale had these options 30 years ago.)

There's also stuff like this, which transposes in real time (not free, but has a free trial). I've not tried it, but you've made me curious about it!

As a final note, a lot of players can do at least some transpositions in their head and/or with fun tricks. I'm more a "trick" guy. You have a piece written in bass clef for a concert pitch instrument and you want me to play it on my Eb baritone sax? Switch the clef from bass to treble and add three sharps to the key signature and play the notes as written. So, :BassClef::Space3: (concert E) becomes :TrebleClef::Space3:. Add three sharps to the key sig. Ah! a C#.
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Oddly enough I have Sibelius
 
pete said:
@TrueTone Not to steal your thunder, I Googled. Here's a Buffet C bass from 1837. I think we can all thank Adolphe Sax that bass clarinet players don't have to play anything like that anymore.
Here's a Buffet in A from 1929.

Please note that some bass clarinets listed as being in "B" or "B?" -- like this one -- are probably Bb basses that are high pitch. Modern pitch is either concert A=440hz or 442hz. High pitch was A=457hz, which is almost a half step higher. There were so many competing standards in the 19th century and earlier, I'm not going to even try to list them. I will mention that high pitch didn't go away, completely, until about 1970.

There's also the possibility of translator error. In German, B is Bb and H is B.
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Hi yes, I just noticed I forgot about that. =P
Here's the one I was thinking of: http://clariboles-et-cie.blogspot.com/2011/06/prototype-de-clarinette-basse-en-ut.html?m=1
That one you linked looks a whole lot less ergonomic to play than the one from the 1870s...
(Also coincidentally it's at high pitch. I'll add that in the U.S. high pitch was basically extinct by the start of WW2, though.)
 
Also I just realized another solution to my bass clarinet dilemma... what if I basically set the tuning neck to mimick a C pitch? Is that possible?
 
PoweredWindows said:
Also I just realized another solution to my bass clarinet dilemma... what if I basically set the tuning neck to mimick a C pitch? Is that possible?
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Even if there was enough length to, (and there isn't) that would mess up the relationship between the toneholes terribly-woodwinds can't be retuned in that fashion, unlike (non keyed, at least) brasswinds, which have no tone holes to deal with.
I'll add, learning to deal with a transposing instrument isn't hard, although it might be annoying if you have perfect pitch. You *could* also learn a bass at concert pitch, but you'd then need to relearn your fingerings if you want to play it in a group with pre written charts. Both of these options would probably be fine for what you want.
 
TrueTone said:
Even if there was enough length to, (and there isn't) that would mess up the relationship between the toneholes terribly-woodwinds can't be retuned in that fashion, unlike (non keyed, at least) brasswinds, which have no tone holes to deal with.
I'll add, learning to deal with a transposing instrument isn't hard, although it might be annoying if you have perfect pitch. You *could* also learn a bass at concert pitch, but you'd then need to relearn your fingerings if you want to play it in a group with pre written charts. Both of these options would probably be fine for what you want.
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That's the thing - I DO have perfect pitch, and I primarily learn LINEARLY through my EARS so to speak; so it would just be straight up annoying for me to always have to put everything down a half step. I know there are plenty of people who can handle all sorts of transpositions... I'm just not one of them
 
I must admit I'm rather confused by this thread. I'm a bass clarinet player, as well a saxophonist. I regularly get called on to play it with our local symphony--we have a performance at the end of this as a matter of fact.

Bass clarinets--like saxophones--are transposing instruments and come in Bb. Period. Full stop. If I have to read another part I have to transpose it either by sight, or through using a music notation program.

If you are planning on playing a bass clarinet made in the last 100 years that's pretty much what you're going to find. Furthermore, I would suggest that if you have never played one before, that you try one through a local music store for a month or so first to see if this is even something that you're going to like playing. Student model BCs are usually available for a monthly or 3 month rental in stores that rent to students.

The problem with buying any vintage or antique instrument made of wood--which is what a clarinet like what you're describing is going to made of--is that the repair bill is potentially a huge one. That is if the instrument can be repaired at all. That is provided you can even find what it is you're describing.

There are a great many pitfalls when buying an antique or even vintage instrument. Repair shops are full of horns that people bought without knowing what they were getting into.

Just my 2 virtual cents based on my experience and knowledge as a player and educator. And now as someone who works for their tech, and sees daily the buyer's regret in peoples' faces when we have to give them the news that the horn they bought will cost $X to repair.

Edit: I should have mentioned that there are clarinets pitched in C as well, but they are are NOT of the larger variety. They are the soprano kind and often what serious clarinets have in the arsenal: (Eb, C, Bb, & A being the most common in my experience with the clarinettists I work with.) I forgot them since I am not a small-horn player, and make a point of avoiding small clarinets whenever I can. ;) However, given the confusion in this thread, I thought it should be mentioned.

So to sum up, this is the list of clarinets that the McGill School of Music lists on their website:

  • Piccolo clarinet in A♭.
  • Soprano clarinets in E♭, D, C, B♭, A and G.
  • Basset clarinet in A.
  • Basset horn in F.
  • Alto clarinet in E♭.
  • Bass clarinet in B♭.
  • Contra-alto clarinet in EE♭.
  • Contrabass clarinet in BB♭.
Experimental EEE♭ octocontra-alto and BBB♭ octocontrabass clarinets have also been built.
 
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Helen said:
I must admit I'm rather confused by this thread. I'm a bass clarinet player, as well a saxophonist. I regularly get called on to play it with our local symphony--we have a performance at the end of this as a matter of fact.

Bass clarinets--like saxophones--are transposing instruments and come in Bb. Period. Full stop. If I have to read another part I have to transpose it either by sight, or through using a music notation program.
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I'm trying to include the bass clarinet with my mostly electronic ensemble, and don't want to have to worry about any additional modifications I'll have to do as far as pitching stuff down or up. Also I've found some in E flat.
 
PoweredWindows said:
Also I've found some in E flat.
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The clarinet family is badly named, in a couple places. There is an Eb soprano ("sopranino") clarinet, Eb alto clarinet, and an Eb contralto clarinet. The contralto is sometimes referred to as an "Eb contrabass clarinet." The Bb clarinet line consists of Bb soprano, Bb bass, Bb contrabass, and Bb octobass -- and there's only ever been one octobass built. That's by Leblanc.

Just as a recap ...

* There are no modern C bass clarinets.
* There are a couple places that could custom make you a C bass clarinet if you have at least $20K you're willing to spend. Possibly more.
* If you have a written piece of music and you want a LIVE bass clarinet player to play it, either transpose the part to the correct key by using Sibelius or another notation software OR make sure your bass clarinet player can transpose on sight.
* If you have a written piece of music and you want to use a bass clarinet patch in your DAW or sampler, there's no need to transpose.

If you need a bass clarinet virtual instrument, this one sounds phenomenal and it's only 50 Euro for the Standard library and 90 Euro for the standard library and some extra expressions. Arguably, you could go with the Audio Modeling clarinets pack (higher price), but the bass clarinet doesn't have much growl on the lower end.
 
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