1972 LeBlanc Noblet Repairs

CaptForce

CaptForce

I've settled upon this thread while searching for a solution to my problem with attempting to understand the condition of my pads. I'm short on knowledge, as I've recently returned to the clarinet (1972 LeBlanc Noblet) after a fifty year absence. I've been pleased with my progress and I've been devoting a lot of time to regain some mediocre performance. One year has passed since I began again and I've been careful to clean my instrument well after each use. Last week I was interrupted and laid down my clarinet wet, not returning until the next day. Since that time I've had a slower response and difficulty with distant jumps in pitches worsening after about 30 minutes of play. If I slip a piece of absorbent tissue under my pads and press them a few times I can regain function for another half hour of play, but I'm soon back with the same problem.

My pads were described as recently replaced when I purchased this clarinet one year ago and their appearance is excellent, but I don't know what problems might not be visible. Could I have a film of deposit on these pads that is repeatedly becoming sticky with moisture? Are there means of cleaning these pads that I can pursue? Could I be mistaken in my thinking that the pads are the problem? I should add that I have removed the register key and made sure that the passage is clear and clean.

I'm very pleased to have discovered this forum and I'm looking forward to your advice.
 
You are describing a couple possible problems.

You may have a crack in the instrument which, after some period of time when the body expands from internal temperature, the crack opens up. Here is such an example ==> http://clarinetperfection.com/WhyCrack.htm

On the other hand, you are also describing an issue that I've come across in old pads. Ie, the pad is worn out and absorbs moisture from the air column (your breathe contains moisture). Then the felt and/or leather (for leather pads) absorbs the water and expands and creates a leak.

Of course, stopping playing lets the temp decrease (in the case of the crack) and the crack would close. Thus the instruments response is fine now.
The same with the pads .. after stopping playing after a while the pad would lose the expansion (moisture) and seal again (mostly/hoefully).

Pads quality can vary IMMENSELY excluding the installation quality. You can buy cheap pads for $10 or a top brand synthetic pad set for $175. This EXcludes installation, etc.

I've many times placed my clarinet on the stand and not touched it again for a day or two. So just having it sit around should not be a problem.

Would it be possible to get your clarinet to a technician?
As a technician should be able to help identify the problem as it will take some experience to identify the problem.
 
One method you can use to check each joint independently
is to use on hand to cup the bottom and make a seal (or find a rubber plug to seal the end of the joint.
Then cup the top of the joint with your lips, and lightly blow into the instrument.

You should get enough resistance if there is not a leak.
be careful of blowing too much as you can actually open certain keys if there's too much pressure. Which also, if at the right pressure, could be an indication of a leak due to pressure - ie, a spring tension too light which is a common thing on the RH pinky Eb key.

You can repeat this on both joints.
But if you do find a leak, I don't know if you have the equipment to correct anything (we can base that on your reply). It depends upon how the pads were installed or to take a key off and adjust spring tension (or replace it then adjust spring tension).
 
Thanks for your advice. I am fortunate enough to have a hand held 30x illuminating microscope than is used to detect cracks in sailboat rigging. This provided me with a detailed view of my clarinet wood surfaces and I don't seem to have any cracks that could cause my problem. I'm also experiencing less of a problem over time. I hope that this was a temporary problem. I will still try the blowing-pressure test that you described.

I noticed that you had said above, "I've many times placed my clarinet on the stand and not touched it for a day or two.....". This could be a clue for me as I have not used a stand when casually setting down my instrument for a short time. In fact, I've not only laid it horizontal, but I tend to place it with the reed up as not to damage the reed. This, of course, puts many of the pads in a position to receive draining moisture. Sometimes, experienced people don't see the potential mistakes of those who are comparatively clueless. This is how I left my clarinet when I had this problem. Could this be my stupid move that was the cause?

later edit: I tried the test of blowing into each joint with all the tone holes closed and found no leaks.
 
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There really shouldn't be an issue of laying down your clarinet until the next day.
As mentioned I've left mine i my stand, and I've also put it in the case without drying the bore.

Retry the pressure test but use a light pressure and increase it slowly. This is one of those tests where if you are not used to it, repeating, and becoming more and more aware of it improves one's abilities of the test.

Pads should not have an issue of getting wet. If a clarinet tonehole collects too much water moisture it can start to gurgle, which isn't a leak, etc but just annoying.

The only thing I don'g recommend is eating and drinking just before playing. mini-chunks of food, and sugar from your breathe could get into the instrument.

Air penetration can also come in another variety. Around the toneholes. I learned years ago (on a early 1900 Buffet) where rubber plugs and a pressure test was yielding a leak, whereas a finger wasn't. The plug goes into the hole. The finger cover the hole and surrounding surface. I ended up adding to refurbishments the sealing of the inside of tonehole chimneys with a thin french liquid shellac. Thus various finger pressure (your finger pad width) could stop the air from penetrating around the tonehole chimney.

But a crack may not appear - as my photos in that link show - until a certain internal temperature. And it can be virtually indetectable otherwise. You can take the keywork off and check the toneholes as cracks seem more visible at the tonehole itself.

Also, is each join tight when put together.
Check the tenons for any layer separation, I've also had horizontal layer cracks, where the layers of the wood separate (somehow) and create this weird chamber type leak in the bore.

What kind of pads are installed ?
 
Steve, thanks for your continued help. The 30x microscope that I mentioned earlier can only be set to view the unobstructed surfaces and not around the edges of the tone holes; however, I did repeat the pressure test by blowing slowly into each joint and checking the tenon connections without noticing any problems.

I don't know the type of pads that I have installed, but I'll try posting a photo later if I'm able.

I should repeat that my original problem has greatly diminished from the first encounter after coming back to the time I left my clarinet laying wet. I do seem to have a more frequent stuffiness or squeak with a slur between pitches that are an octave or more apart, yet not when these notes are tongued. Maybe my remaining problem is due in to my mediocre techniques. I would certainly accept that my limitations are as likely my skills rather than a deficiency in my clarinet.

Thanks again for your advice and I will attempt a close-up photo of my pads.
 
picture won't help much in identifying the manufacturer of the pad, as that is normally on the backside.

If you know anyone else more experienced at playing clarinet to test your clarinet that would also help.
Also, you testing theirs.
That would give you a yardstick of the instrument and the player.
 
With your information I won't attempt sending a pad photo, but would you suggest a type or brand of pad most suitable for me as an intermediate player and that might be best suited for my moderate quality clarinet. The time will come when I'll take the step for all new pads and I'd like to be more aware of what I have.

I appreciate the "yardstick" advice. I should seek some mentors and means of comparing instruments and performance. I have some advantages and disadvantages being mobile on the US East Coast. I have no stable community, but a wide range. Thanks again!
 
The main objective is that if you get it worked on you take it to a quality shop.
Don't have people that do $199 or less repads work on the horn as they are limited to low quality pads and very quick turnaround times, and cutting corners.

There are a variety of types of pads out there, in short.
bladder (single, double, triple)
leather
cork
synthetic

all have various levels of brands/models of quality etc. which is kinda hard to summarize quickly as quality of each component can vary by manufacturer and price point. But this should be a worry of the technician for a high (or not) quality pad and they should be able to direct the person on the merits of each selection based upon what the long term objective and use is.
 
Try pressing the A key and see if there is a bit of movement before it touches the Ab/G# key. If there is not, take a small screwdriver and back the adjusting screw out 1/4 turn. If you don't have a bit of lost motion at that location, the A pad can swell with moisture and push the Ab key up slightly causing the pad to leak. This is a common cause of inconsistent playability on clarinets.

Another possibility I have seen with some players, myself included, is the the right hand gets tired or the right thumb gets sore after a period of time causing the player to shift the hand position causing the fingers to not cover the holes as well. I eventually put a different thumbrest on my R13 that had a loop for a neckstrap and moved it to a better position for my hand size which solved the problem nicely.
 
jbtsax said:
Try pressing the A key and see if there is a bit of movement before it touches the Ab/G# key. If there is not, take a small screwdriver and back the adjusting screw out 1/4 turn. If you don't have a bit of lost motion at that location, the A pad can swell with moisture and push the Ab key up slightly causing the pad to leak. This is a common cause of inconsistent playability on clarinets.

Another possibility I have seen with some players, myself included, is the the right hand gets tired or the right thumb gets sore after a period of time causing the player to shift the hand position causing the fingers to not cover the holes as well. I eventually put a different thumbrest on my R13 that had a loop for a neckstrap and moved it to a better position for my hand size which solved the problem nicely.
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I like the neckstrap idea.
I did that once to one of my clarinets but in testing clarinets and my own I found it helpful that I just bought a thick rubber O-ring (for faucets) that was thick enough to snap into my neckstrap (Hyman) and thin enough to go around the base of the regular thumbrests. With some wrists problems that really helps a lot and prevents hand/arm fatigue as you mentioned.
 
Gandalfe said:
Excellent suggestions. I would just add that taking even one lesson from a teacher could really help you progress to the next level. Or, just talk about it and stay stuck. Your call?
Click to expand...

I'm in active pursuit with all these ideas. I've added the neck strap which I've had available, but I had not been using and yesterday I initiated an online search for instruction at my current location. I'll be checking the "A" key adjustment today. I'm grateful to have the support of experts here and thrilled with any advances I can make!
 
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