A Little Surprised No One's Asked This ...

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
We have a lot of repair folk on this forum, so I get to ask a good question that no one's asked here, yet:

What is the best made $horn you've worked on?

(Where "$horn" is whatever woodwind.) I'm not asking about what horn plays the best player, just which is made the best. Conversely, I'd also like to know which $horn is the worst made.

Of course, I want to know the "why," too, or by what standard you're judging it. As an example, while I'm not a repairman, I could say that the worst horn I've ever worked on was an Evette-Schaeffer curved soprano from the early 1900's. It's not that the horn was poorly made, it's that it had all those extra keys from the patented keywork system. Combining extra keys and small horn = difficult to work on. Really pretty horn, though, with heavy silver plate.
 
worst sax ...
Mexi-Conn. I swear not one post was aligned up correctly. I recall the bottom stack where there is 1 long screw rod going through 4 posts ... none of the posts were aligned and you could tell just looking at it. So I had to "weave" the rod back in through the posts even after a few corrections with a hammer. and the tool steel rod isn't exactly like a piece of spaghetti. The upper stack was painful too.

Best sax ...
Yamaha 8xx, Yanigasawa 99x both very nicely made, great feel and easy to work on.
I also really liked the Selmer Paris and JK horns. The older JK horns had simplier mechanisms too which I prefer, and they were easier to work on.

but then I like playing the Selmer and JK horns more than the Yani and Yamahas.

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worst clarinet ... any early chinese thing. They just go out of adjustment looking at them.

best clarinet ... Eatons, they keywork is always buttery smooth action rather most being slightly "on/off" feel. Of course the Eaton use rods on most keys whereas others use pivot screws.

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best oboe .. none
worst oboe ... all of them. Just look at the keywork.

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flutes .. haven't worked on many lower end flutes, the biggest problem I have is my fingers seem to be getting bigger and clumsier and my eyes worse which makes flutes and oboes hard to work on.
 
Best - armstrong heritage flute, beautifully made, everything fits, plenty of space for tools.

Worst, cheap chinese alto sax. Plastic metal, pads with so little heat melt glue that they couldn't be adjusted, warped tone holes...
 
Best - armstrong heritage flute, beautifully made, everything fits, plenty of space for tools.

Worst, cheap chinese alto sax. Plastic metal, pads with so little heat melt glue that they couldn't be adjusted, warped tone holes...

I play an Armstrong 80 series flute. solid silver beast with a nice large roundish oval embochure hole which allows great tonal and playing flexibility. I love it, when I play it. I used to have a 303OB and some 1xx series flute too. I could never play the 1xx series as the EH was too small and I guess my air stream wasn't accurate enough. No problems on the 303 or 80 though.

The Heritages are great deals on eBay last time I checked. Was looking at upgrading my 1970s 80 series for basically the same thing :) but with a B extension
 
It's a great pity that Armstrong, like so many others, threw the game away/got caught by a rapdly changing market and the general recession/lethargy.

I wish the flute was mine, but it's a friend's. But I'm not a flautist, I'm an aspiring saxophonist. She also has an old Louis Lot, late 1890s... That needs a lot of work, tone holes leak where the solder's corroded. But I'm not touching that one. I'd love to hear that played....
 
I haven't yet seen one of those Indian saxophones... so the worst saxophone was probably a Chinese one. Obviously a Selmer copy but repair-oriented ergonomics (e.g. reaching screws etc.) were awful. Here are some problems they had (I've seen several of this model):
  • Pearls easily falling.
  • Pearl holders falling when keys heated for removing pads (with an alcohol lamp!).
  • Poor soldering of posts, neck socket easily desolders (seen several of that model with this issue), so overlal terrible soldering.
  • Tiny pieces of some fabric used in pivot screw holes to "remove" play.
  • Pivot screw very loose inside their posts.
  • Keys bind when pivot screws are tight.
  • Rod screws loose inside keys and posts.
  • Keys bind when rod screws are tightened.
  • Posts and/or post holes in wrong direction (i.e. a pivot screw will point at an angle).
  • Terrible front/back alignment of key cups over tone holes, some "sealing" right on the edge.
  • Some key parts extremely soft.
  • Some key parts too hard.
  • Bad design of key arms and other parts so adjustument is difficult (e.g. won't bend where it should but in the weaker part of the key, which shouldn't be weaker).
  • Natural cork (at least looked like it) used everywhere for all linkage, which is squishy, can have too much friction, etc.
  • Linkage and bumper materials poorly glued, can slide or fall off too easily.
  • Linkages (eventhough it was a copy) are poorly designed, too much friction.
  • Springs with nowhere near enough spring to them, especially the flat springs. Also bad length and thickness proportions.
  • Very non-level and wavy tone holes.
  • Bad quality pads, much too springy (especially with those tone holes).
  • Terrible intonation, almost 1/4 tone sharp in the top range.
  • Harsh and too aggressive tone (which is the least of the problems).
I haven't seen many Chinese saxophones as bad as this. Really terrible ones are mostly older ones or only a few newer ones. Most of the newer ones are much better. Actually another with an identical name to the worst one (no model names or numbers) is one of the better Chinese saxophones I've seen. Just looking at it you can see a compeltely different design.By the way, I recently found some of the problems described above on a $8,500 professional instrument.......
It's also common to find many of these problems on models like Conn 20M/24M and even Bundy II, so they are probably a not-too-far-behind second.
Re the issue mentioned of not enough glue behind the pads to float, I found this is the case with most professional model saxophones too (not I like to float pads so often, prefer not to unless I have to, but the glue does need to hold the pad securely with no air gaps).

The worst clarinet was most likely the old Russian clarinet I turned into a lamp. It wasn't even good enough to use for parts. It didn't have many of the issues this bad saxophone had, but I'm choosing it because it was the worst in terms of value for saving... not worth the slightest, cheapest repair.

The best... hard to say. I remember a Yangisawa 992 soprano that was a dream compared with the Selmer SIII soprano I saw just the day before. I remember a Yanagisawa 991 alto that was also really nice. I guess that's what I'd choose as the best, but even those had some issues. I don't remember any sax without any issues really. Mark VI and some old models (like Conn) have some things that are nicer than Yangisawa. But I guess overall I'd still choose the Yangisawa.
Sometimes you find relatively well made expensive models and then you see the most whacky design flaw or a really terrible choice somewhere...

Some of the old instruments obviously had a lot of thought into them. Working on a Conn Transitional now. In some ways it is better made than many of the better instruments made today. For its time, it's better made. But in many ways it's worse too, including things obvioulsy made this way at the factory. Same for other old companies, really nice for its time, in some ways even better than current made instruments, but too many issues still.
So it's hard to choose.

The best made clarinet is hard to choose too... I guess an Eaton is a contender. This is what I play and it is well made in many ways and has some design features I like, but it does have issues too. I have no idea what Steve is talking about the Eaton using rod screws instead of pivot screws. My Eaton is exactly the same as my Buffet in terms of which keys have rod screws and which have pivot screws. Maybe other Eaton models are different, with more rods, like the old B&H, which I consider a disadvantage in some ways.

Very few clarinets I've seen had a good design of bridge key and linkage keys. I think the best one I've seen was a Selmer, but it had too many other issues...
 
The best made clarinet is hard to choose too... I guess an Eaton is a contender. This is what I play and it is well made in many ways and has some design features I like, but it does have issues too. I have no idea what Steve is talking about the Eaton using rod screws instead of pivot screws. My Eaton is exactly the same as my Buffet in terms of which keys have rod screws and which have pivot screws. Maybe other Eaton models are different, with more rods, like the old B&H, which I consider a disadvantage in some ways.

Maybe Eaton changed their setup a bit - the ones I did were 2006/7 models or earlier ? But then I really cannot 100% recall because when I did the Eaton (International and Elite) I did a guys entire collection which included several B&H 1010s.

In my review I wrote I did also mention that the Eaton seemed to use longer springs which made a smooth keywork action .. kinda like the mk VIs vs later horns.
 
Maybe Eaton changed their setup a bit - the ones I did were 2006/7 models or earlier ? But then I really cannot 100% recall because when I did the Eaton (International and Elite) I did a guys entire collection which included several B&H 1010s.
Maybe a confusion then, since B&H did use rod screws for some keys that most clarinet didn't. If they did change at some point, since the Eaton clarinets are more or less a continuation of the B&H clarinets, then if anything, I'd expect Eaton to start from there and change from rod screws to pivot screws. So I doubt they changed to rod screws in mid 2000s, but I guess it's possible. My clarinet is from 2003.
 
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