Any woodwind players organizations ?

Connical

I just had a long talk with an old timer. His dad Ben Homer was a staff composer with Les Brown . He co-wrote Sentimental Journey along with Bud Green. Anyways, we started talking about the decline of live music. He talked about the countless numbers of musicians he knew growing up, and how today, there is no venue to develop and train these musicians. Especially in the numbers that were once around during the Big Band era.
I mentioned how DCI (Drum Corp International) has cranked out huge numbers of talented brass players, but I didn't know of any organized effort that promotes woodwinds.

Has anyone ever heard of an organized effort that includes woodwinds ?

He also talked about his Dads struggles after he left New York for Hollywood. Leaving behind all of the acclaim and contacts that he enjoyed there. He recalled how his Dad had to take a job driving a delivery truck for the Old Brown Derby restaurant. And also as a baggage handler for Flying Tigers in Burbank.

I suppose it has never been easy working in the music industry. Even back then.
 
As far as the sax is concerned, Jim or Ed posted about some organization that recently went bankrupt. It was one of, if not the, premier jazz sax organizations.

You've got one level of granularity in your post: an organization that trains and develops players. That's a tad general, tho: you could say that this forum fits that bill ... as does the webinars/symposiums/clinics from Selmer, Yamaha and others.

I'd say there are more promotional organizations that also do research, but no training (per se), like the IDRS (International Double-Reed Society). There's also the Galpin Society for musical instruments, in general.

I, myself, am a member of NASA -- the North American Saxophone Alliance -- and at least one of our WF members has written for their magazine.

There's also NAPBIRT -- the National Association of Professional Band Instrument Repair Technicians -- that I'm fairly positive that at least a half-dozen WF members are also included in their ranks, but they're more about making sure their techs are quality craftsmen, but they offer some clinics, too.

I also think that some of the above do offer some kind of scholarship.

Sounds a little more like you're talking about a union, tho. There are unions for instrumentalists.
 
No, not really a union. But an organization on a large scale that promotes live music in general. DCI does not train per se, but promotes brass performance, and therefore creating an environment that generates some real talent. I was just wondering if there was a organization that flew under my radar that exited today. One that specifically targeted woodwinds. I knew it was a long shot, since I have never read anything along those lines anywhere. Thanks for the feedback and confirmation.

Stephen
 
I talked to the wife, an alto sax player and teacher. She hasn't heard of any "training"-type organizations -- say, to make you a Selmer Certified Saxophone Player, like I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer.

... But that's a somewhat different thing.

There are a few thousand hits on Google for organizations that promote live music, in general. If you focus on a particular music genre, it makes things a bit easier. However, you might want to check out the Music Performance Fund. Might be something that'd be good.

Something I always regretted when I was on staff at Sax-on-the-Web is that we had loads of members and traffic and we never really did some sort of fund-raising thing to promote saxophones or saxophone music. Hey, if you've got the influence, why not use it? (I might try to convince Ed and the gang here to do something like that at some point, but I've only mentioned it in passing, so far.)
 
My original question was something less than well thought out. Clearly, developing and creating a woodwind organization that promotes live performances is a tough problem to solve. I suppose an all woodwing group of any sorts is not the most exciting or attainable idea. As for an organization or group that certifies a player, that seems to be of little need to me. After all, if that is what one wants, they can attend a College or music school and attain a degree if desired.

I think using SOTW or WWF to promote saxes and sax playing is a great idea. For the young brass player, you have DCI as a national body to oversee and promote brass playing. What seems to be missing in the woodwind field, is a unified approach and governing body to oversee and coordinate the activities and promotional aspects of woodwind or sax performance. The big question then, is what sort of music or activities to promote ? With Brass, it's all about marching and competing. That model clearly wouldn't work for woodwinds. For saxes, you could have an all sax ensemble, but I don't see a great interest and potential there. What would be most desirable, is some sort of unifying activity on a national level.

What sort of ideas have you tinkered with ?

Perhaps it's a question with no real value or merit. Do we even need something like I've described ? Sometimes I think too much about frivolous things, and not enough about more worthwhile pursuits ! =)
 
Last edited:
I think that there is a certain lack of focus involved in having a "woodwind organization" to do the promoting. Woodwind instruments are only one element of live music, and (I think it can be argued) not the most important one at that. I would reserve that designation for the rhythm group (piano, guitar, acoustic bass and drums), as without them you are just another guy standing on the street blowing a sax with an open instrument case at your feet.

Jazz music suffers from a similar lack of focus. Which "jazz" are you talking about when you use that four letter word? Traditional? Dixieland? Smooth? Conceptual? Each has its own following, and getting such a diverse set of horses to all pull in the same direction has to be like herding cats (to mix a metaphor or two). And, the more passionate advocates, the very ones most likely to be the leaders, are the very ones to be political enough to want to advance their particular version of the vision over that of the others. And, if there's one thing that jazz does not need, it's a street fight between the various elements - their support is thin enough on the ground already.

There is just not enough money in live music of any kind to "actively" promote that segment. Classical/art music survives only because it is so heavily subsidized by corporate donations and long standing endowments. Rock 'n' roll and soul and R&B and "rock" (whatever the hell that means) survive because they are entertainment oriented. (You most likely are not able to dance to jazz.)

Jazz survives because the people that want to play it are willing to subsidize the art form through their sacrifice. Sure, there art some artists (a few) who can make a damn decent living at it, but that's because the fans of same are willing to throw money down for the art form.

What works? Promotion, which means money, which means someone is going to have to pay something for something to happen. Now, I don't know about you, but when I make attempts to promote my group, the money tends to come from one source only - moi. It's a case of put up or shut up.

Occasionally, you will find a venue that's willing to bite the bullet and do the promoting for you. A club owner may run a weekly advertisement listing who's playing this week and who's the coming attraction. But, they aren't doing it to help you so much as they are using you to get more butts into the seats, thus ensuring more drink sales.
 
Well said, and all points are so very true. That in a nutshell is the crux of the problem. I suppose my desire for this springs up from the lack of groups or organizations that are found elsewhere in the music world.
I.E. DCI, period specific brass bands, all brass ensembles, things that aren't really viable and of course available to woodwind afficiandos.
I'm just a bit envious and jealous is all. Just me spittin' into the wind ! :cool:
 
I think 2 of my 3 girls share your thoughts. There is no DCI equivalent for woodwinds. The 2 older play clarinet/sax/oboe, while the 3rd is on trumpet. They don't see why there couldn't be a competitive woodwind version.
The last time we watched a DCI competition my middle daughter complained that she was a victim of instrumental descrimination.

We have flutes, clarinets, and saxophones in regular marching band. It's not fair!
 
Connical said:
My original question was something less than well thought out.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. It caused my brain to work overtime. Sometimes a general question isn't a bad thing :).

SOTSDO said:
I think that there is a certain lack of focus involved in having a "woodwind organization" to do the promoting. Woodwind instruments are only one element of live music, and (I think it can be argued) not the most important one at that. I would reserve that designation for the rhythm group (piano, guitar, acoustic bass and drums), as without them you are just another guy standing on the street blowing a sax with an open instrument case at your feet.

Jazz music suffers from a similar lack of focus. Which "jazz" are you talking about when you use that four letter word? Traditional? Dixieland? Smooth? Conceptual? Each has its own following, and getting such a diverse set of horses to all pull in the same direction has to be like herding cats (to mix a metaphor or two). And, the more passionate advocates, the very ones most likely to be the leaders, are the very ones to be political enough to want to advance their particular version of the vision over that of the others. And, if there's one thing that jazz does not need, it's a street fight between the various elements - their support is thin enough on the ground already.
Click to expand...

Connical said:
What sort of ideas have you tinkered with ?
Click to expand...
Terry articulates well the point where I'm at: there are so many different facets, which one(s) should be promoted?

FWIW, if I was talking "sax", the form of music that 99% of the public think of when they hear that you play a sax is "jazz" -- and, these days -- smooth jazz. Which I don't like and Kenny G doesn't need more sponsors.

I can brainstorm the idea, however, and my opinion would be to a) find a group or two that member(s) of our forum are involved in and be their sponsor (why two? Because it's probable that bassoon players wouldn't be in big-band jazz groups and few saxophone players are in woodwind ensembles) and b) have a scholarship (even a small one) for one of our members (or the spawn of one of our members) to go to college as a music major. Alternately, we find a charity that will do both/either what I mention and sponsor them.

Again, just brainstorming. I have not discussed this with the other WF staff. Blame me, not them. Your results may vary. These statements have not been validated by the FDA. Et cetera.

Regarding the DCI, when I was a young lad living in both Texas and New York, those states had woodwind festivals and competitions for high school students. IMO, that's the woodwind version of DCI. Maybe a little less famous, but the competitions were ... well, "fun" would be a bit too strong, but the bari sax player from the Amherst Sax Quartet -- who judged my performance -- said that I had an excellent tone.

The New York folks also judged full bands and ensembles. The big-band jazz ensemble I was in in high school made it a couple times.

In both cases, there was a live performance by the finalists. I seem to remember being in a BIG auditorium in Texas (maybe Casa Manana). The ones in NY were in different schools with large auditoriums.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom