Barrels

robertsax

robertsax

How significant is the proper selection of a third-party barrel?

For some reason, I wound up with a Leblanc Concerto 65 barrel that looks like new. I can't remember why I bought it, but it must have been to use with my Noblet 45 and I decided not to use it because it just sits on the shelf now. However, since I just got a Buffet R13, I may give it another try on the new clarinet.

I was just wondering what the expectations should be in changing barrels. Certainly, intonation could be affected, but how much would the tone itself change? Are there any other factors/vairables particular barrels are designed to affect? I konw they can be fairly pricey, depending on the make and model.

It's obvious I can find the answer to these questions on almost any clarinet forum, but I thought I'd try to get something started here on Ed's new forum.
 
I haven't been on barrel GAS but the selection of a barrel can have minor or major impact on intonation, resistance and tonal qualities.

So, yes, the proper barrel selection is important. Personally, I've stuck with the original barrel and used mouthpiece selection to vary everything. But then, I happen to have a large mouthpiece selection and few barrels (though growing).
 
There are some fun barrels out there that can add, as Steve sez a minor difference to your sound an improvement in the intonation. If you have the money it can be interesting to check them out. But my impression is that until you get to a professional level of playing, practice, good reed and mouthpiece selection, long tones, alternate fingering drills are far more important to a musician's sound and skill.
 
Y'know, my opinion on barrels has always been that the person that originally designed the clarinet -- whatever clarinet -- had an overall bore design in mind. If you're adding a third-party barrel, you're screwing up that design. Which is essentially why I look askance at saxophones that don't have the original neck in the case. Even if they're high-quality replacement necks.
 
but if you do want to fiddle around with 3rd party barrels it's always good to speak to whom you are buying it from or buy them for the same instrument (made for Buffet, etc).

You want the bore to be similar to your top joint bore.
A Barrel bore may be cylindrical or tapered, reverse tapered or something else ...

If tapered then the top of the barrel is larger than the bottom of the barrel . aka conical. For instance the Moenig barrel are tapered and allow the player to use a larger bore mouthpiece on an R13. It also corrects some potential tuning issues with particular setups.

Of course you can get them in various lengths generally like 63mm upto 69mm to try and correct varaious tuning issues you may have. But try before you buy unless you need 1mm more or less. going with the shorter or longer ones tend to create havoc somewhere.

BUT for me I never have a problem with the original barrel. I was taught a symphonic type embouchure, not a doublers, etc. so my intonation is usually really good too.

you also have your exotic wood barrels and makers like Backun

DG aluminum barrels help in tuning in that they don't shrink/expand with the weather and are quite stable. I have one!! I use it to check new cork tightness on mouthpieces that I recork. I also have a silverplated barrel from some unknown metal clarinet which is good for misc tasks like a pencil holder. I also have a 63mm barrel which .. well, just sits there on the wall.
 
Well, a friend of mine had an older pro Selmer (10G? Something like that) and had a couple different Selmer-labeled barrels in the case that I'd occasionally use for tuning. Hey, Buffalo, NY + winter + hot stage lights + wooden clarinet = fun with intonation. But that's about it. He also had this barrel that had deep grooves cut in it that looked really interesting, but did absolutely nothing.

And they didn't work very well with the horn I had, a Selmer Centered Tone.

BTB, I thought aluminum would have more, not less problems with temperature.
 
Yep. Possibly deeper and I don't remember the metal bands.

Then again, it was a LONG while ago. Let's see. Mmmm. 1988?

BTB, it pleases me that you have a Centered Tone for sale on your website. Takes me back to 1988 and trying to line up that hole to get the thing to speak right :). Probably would have helped if I had better corks. And pads.

I donated it.

==========

[edit] Check that. I looked at an eBay ad and saw a different view. Yup. That looks like the style of barrel. However, as I said, I don't remember the bands. But it's been awhile.
 
SteveSklar said:
kinda like this - deep grooves ?

http://www.clarinetperfection.com/4Sale/B09/b09-1.jpg
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Just yesterday I played in a big band sax section where the lead alto player was using a barrel similar to the one in this photo on his clarinet. It seemed longer, but the photo might be misleading, and bulged a bit in the middle. I've not seen one like it before.

Thanks for all the inputs regarding pros and cons of 3rd-party barrels. Intuitively, I tend to agree with Pete about the designer probably knowing what works best for his instrument, but if that's what I thought about my (former) PT Cruiser, I wouldn't have added about $5,000 worth of 3rd-party add-ons to make it stand out at rallys. (I know,...) Also, that said, I'm guilty of having a Ponzol tenor sax neck in my Vito Beaugnier case, but that's mostly because the Vito neck that came with the horn was pretty beat up.

Gandalfe also makes a good point: Learn to play the darn thing before worrying about what kind of racing stripes to get.
 
vitosaxguy said:
Gandalfe also makes a good point: Learn to play the darn thing before worrying about what kind of racing stripes to get.
Click to expand...
It is truth, thus it is quoted.

As far as saxophone necks go, I just waxed prosaic about how having a non-original neck can damage the value of your instrument, even if it doesn't damage the playability. The easy way of testing this is to try to sell anything other than a Mark VI (for the clarinet-only people, this is a very expensive saxophone) on eBay with a non-original neck and see if it'd sell for anywhere near the value of an intact instrument. You know it won't.

However, if someone gave me a discounted price on, say, a 10G clarinet and said that the barrel was 3rd party, I'd take a stab. I'd also might play around with some barrels in the future, if I had the cash.

FWIW, I had thought, for a long time, that the only reason to get a different barrel is to correct intonation problems, so you didn't have to pull out the barrel/mouthpiece as much.
 
I agree with just about every point you made, Pete. The only exception being the reason I thought one bought a 3rd-party barrel was to make your clarinet look kool. Afterall, it's the only way I could afford anything that had Buffet Concerto stamped in gold on it.
 
I had a third-party barrel made for my Buffet RC Prestige several years ago. I am not a trained clarinetist and had a heck of a time playing to pitch with the stock barrel(s). On one gig, a fellow jammer gave me a VERY short Buffet barrel and WOW - I was on pitch. Unfortunately, some shlock repair-tech ruined that barrel when reaming out the lower joint.

So, I had a good tech make me a Sierra barrel to match the length of the ruined Buffet barrel. It works like a charm. And, it measures 56mm.

I know, I know - many people who hear/read that can't believe I can play my clarinet in tune - but I can and it does not throw the whole horn out. DAVE
 
Reawakening this old thread...curious about this. I play old Selmer CT and Series 9 clarinets. Have recently started playing with more open mouthpieces, as it makes doubling with sax much easier to accommodate. Unfortunately, I tend to blow a little flat, and all I have with these clarinets are 66mm barrels. Haven't seen 64s or 65s in months of watching and thinking about an aftermarket barrel. Wondering if anyone has updates on any of the 3rd party barrels with 590 mil barrels.
 
I think you have an extra zero in there ....

I did a quick Google on 59mm barrels and there were quite a few. I also saw that there's a click barrel for "below 60mm" to "above 70mm." It was also the cheapest I saw, at $90 -- the others were $225 and up. You do seem to be right that the majority of barrels out there for Bb clarinet are in the 64mm to 67mm range. I also saw a post that said that Malerne barrels were available in the 59mm or so range, so that might be an eBay alternative.

EDIT: Here's a Selmer 60.5 on eBay for all of $15.
 
There is no magic in original barrels, just as there is no magic in original mouthpieces. Both are parts of the air column and changing either will have some effect on intonation and response depending on changes in geometry. People have no problem changing mouthpieces but shy away from custom barrels. That doesn't make any sense IMO. Flute headjoints take up much more of the air column length and no one has any problems switching headjoints. What you don't want is to have sharp diameter mismatches at either end of the barrel, but honestly even that is not necessarily a big deal. Aftermarket barrels may even improve intonation and response depending on the mouthpiece, reed and embouchure. The effects can be pretty well predicted (at least generally in terms of intonation) by Rayleigh perturbation curves, but of course as always it's best to try different ones and see what works for you.

Just don't buy the hype that some exotic wood or absence of tenon rings (ala Backun) will improve "resonance" or whatever. The wood is so damn thick at the barrel that it couldn't vibrate if it wanted to in any significant manner, so the only things that will matter are the internal smoothness and the geometry.
 
kymarto said:
The wood is so damn thick at the barrel that it couldn't vibrate if it wanted to in any significant manner, so the only things that will matter are the internal smoothness and the geometry.
Click to expand...
We could talk about metal clarinets.
/me: ducks and runs
 
pete said:
We could talk about metal clarinets.
/me: ducks and runs
Click to expand...

If the build quality were generally better, I'd have no problem playing metal clarinets. They sound like a clarinet and won't self destruct if left in the car after a winter rehearsal.
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with the adjustable barrel that came standard on the Selmer Paris silver clarinet.

SelmerMetalClmpiece.jpg
 
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