Bass clarinet - what reed strength do you play?
- Thread starter werecow
- Start date
Without reference to what mouthpiece the respondents are using, the information is practically useless.
FWIW, I'm using a Walter Grabner/Lawrie Bloom model bass piece with Vandoren Blue Box #3.5 reeds.
Well...every mouthpiece has a specifically shaped curve where the reed is placed (table, then the rails to the left and the right of the window, then the tip).
Now, some mouthpieces are curvier than others, and some reeds are stiffer than others. Now you'll understand that it takes more force to "bend" a stiff reed around a narrow curve than around a flat one. In the same light, a flexible reed might close up too easily around a flat, shallow curve.
So, there is only a certain bandwidth of reed stiffness that is well suited for a certain mouthpiece.
There is nothing inherently "good" or "bad" about a soft or a stiff reed. First it must be a good combination with the mouthpiece, but also the player's embouchure (how firmly the player closes his lips around the mouthpiece) and the style of music.
You should "work up" to a reed strength you're comfortable with, you can play for extended periods of time without getting a tired mouth, and last but not least produce a satisfying tone and are in tune with others. That should be your goal, not some meaningless competition about who's playing the hardest reed.
Over time you'll find out that you have changed, and so also your requirements re the reeds will change. That is normal, and in the end everyone will gravitate around a certain reed strength but will eventually go a notch softer or stiffer.
(This all in layperson's terms, I don't mean it to be scientific in a way)
Oh, and one factor is very, very important: Playing is supposed to be fun.
Now, some mouthpieces are curvier than others, and some reeds are stiffer than others. Now you'll understand that it takes more force to "bend" a stiff reed around a narrow curve than around a flat one. In the same light, a flexible reed might close up too easily around a flat, shallow curve.
So, there is only a certain bandwidth of reed stiffness that is well suited for a certain mouthpiece.
There is nothing inherently "good" or "bad" about a soft or a stiff reed. First it must be a good combination with the mouthpiece, but also the player's embouchure (how firmly the player closes his lips around the mouthpiece) and the style of music.
You should "work up" to a reed strength you're comfortable with, you can play for extended periods of time without getting a tired mouth, and last but not least produce a satisfying tone and are in tune with others. That should be your goal, not some meaningless competition about who's playing the hardest reed.
Over time you'll find out that you have changed, and so also your requirements re the reeds will change. That is normal, and in the end everyone will gravitate around a certain reed strength but will eventually go a notch softer or stiffer.
(This all in layperson's terms, I don't mean it to be scientific in a way)
Oh, and one factor is very, very important: Playing is supposed to be fun.
One pitfall that all emerging clarinet players should steer clear of is that "reed strength correlates to the skill of the player". I have encountered all manners of young players over the years who are struggling with 3 and higher reeds, and who discover just how much better things work if they drop back to something less like a scaffolding plank.
Mouthpiece facings matter, but the economical way to experiment is to spend a few bucks on a spread of reeds, not to spend much, much more on a spread of mouthpieces.
With that said, this old man is in a position to spend what he wants on what he wants. (Well, that's not 100% accurate - my lovely wife continuously vetos my plan to purchase a classic (1970's) Selmer bass clarinet pitched in A.) I resolved some 20 years ago to find a mouthpiece for each of my instruments that suited me.
With the soprano horns, nothing worked better than the vintage HS* from the 1930's that I had been using since I don't know when. (It was a piece of junk when I bought it, badly oxidized and without a cork.) Since that time, I've had it cloned twice, just to be on the safe side.
With the bass clarinet, I worked through my old stock, a Vandoren, a Charlie Bay and one or two others. However, I ended up with a Selmer G facing, along with relatively flexible Vandoren 2 1/2 reeds. Most of my playing these days is for pop usage, so I'm having to fit into a high volume environment.
If I was still spending a lot of time doing art music, I'd revert down to a lower facing (I played on C* mouthpieces for many years) with a stiffer reed. Playing even with violas (Don Quixote, anyone?) is far easier than dealing with the horn mix in the Riddle version of I've Got You Under My Skin.
One problem that I've encountered with harder reeds on the bass is a phenomenon I call "fluting". It may just be a "in the ear of the player" sensation that is only apparent to the player (or in my addled mind, as some may say), but it is a distraction to me.
On the Selmer basses that I've played over the years, a harder reed has always meant that (in the upper registers, but particularly in the clarinet register) a hissing, hollow sounding sound seems to issue from the register vent. It is strongest when emitted from the lower vent, but it is still present all the way up to high C.
(It's probably there in the altissimo register as well, just harder to pick out from everything else that is going on at the time.)
By the way, I never noticed this on the Leblanc basses that I've used (all equipped with the horrid Leblanc register mechanism, and chiefly used as loaner horns while mine was in for maintenance). I've not used enough modern Buffet horns (or Yamaha horns either, for that matter) to notice it there, but it is all present and accounted for on the antique, manual register system Buffets.
No amount of reed adjustment by trimming or scraping made any difference here, either. My bassoon playing friends maintained that it would, but all of their attempts were in vain.
Mouthpiece facings matter, but the economical way to experiment is to spend a few bucks on a spread of reeds, not to spend much, much more on a spread of mouthpieces.
With that said, this old man is in a position to spend what he wants on what he wants. (Well, that's not 100% accurate - my lovely wife continuously vetos my plan to purchase a classic (1970's) Selmer bass clarinet pitched in A.) I resolved some 20 years ago to find a mouthpiece for each of my instruments that suited me.
With the soprano horns, nothing worked better than the vintage HS* from the 1930's that I had been using since I don't know when. (It was a piece of junk when I bought it, badly oxidized and without a cork.) Since that time, I've had it cloned twice, just to be on the safe side.
With the bass clarinet, I worked through my old stock, a Vandoren, a Charlie Bay and one or two others. However, I ended up with a Selmer G facing, along with relatively flexible Vandoren 2 1/2 reeds. Most of my playing these days is for pop usage, so I'm having to fit into a high volume environment.
If I was still spending a lot of time doing art music, I'd revert down to a lower facing (I played on C* mouthpieces for many years) with a stiffer reed. Playing even with violas (Don Quixote, anyone?) is far easier than dealing with the horn mix in the Riddle version of I've Got You Under My Skin.
One problem that I've encountered with harder reeds on the bass is a phenomenon I call "fluting". It may just be a "in the ear of the player" sensation that is only apparent to the player (or in my addled mind, as some may say), but it is a distraction to me.
On the Selmer basses that I've played over the years, a harder reed has always meant that (in the upper registers, but particularly in the clarinet register) a hissing, hollow sounding sound seems to issue from the register vent. It is strongest when emitted from the lower vent, but it is still present all the way up to high C.
(It's probably there in the altissimo register as well, just harder to pick out from everything else that is going on at the time.)
By the way, I never noticed this on the Leblanc basses that I've used (all equipped with the horrid Leblanc register mechanism, and chiefly used as loaner horns while mine was in for maintenance). I've not used enough modern Buffet horns (or Yamaha horns either, for that matter) to notice it there, but it is all present and accounted for on the antique, manual register system Buffets.
No amount of reed adjustment by trimming or scraping made any difference here, either. My bassoon playing friends maintained that it would, but all of their attempts were in vain.
"Accolmplished" (whatever that menas) bass clarinet players usually play reeds from #2.5 to #4. Ocassionally you will find someone playing even softer or harder reeds, but very rarely. Most play #2.5 to #3.5 strength reeds. Which of course doesn't really mean anything to what reed any particular player would be best with since even a half size difference can be huge.
Personally, I'm using a Vandoren V12 #3 on an out-of-the-box Buffet mouthpiece - seems quite good enough. General warning - pick reeds with dense fibres, whatever the nominal strength, otherwise they'll squeak. Reeds which are too "thin" in this respect also tend to crinkle; they tend to reshape under playing conditions, but not for ever. (Playing bass in Holst's "Planets" this afternoon - hardest bit is the couning... )
Compared to Sibelius...
....Holst is child's play. Try sitting through the "Swan of Tuonela" a few times and test your counting skills there. A bazillion bars of rest, followed by a six bar solo, another pile of rests, and then sixteen bars of "potato farming" (playing whole notes). For consistency, your part ends up with another rest.
As the piece is primarily an English horn solo, you do have something to reckon your place in the music against (and my part has always had ample cues should you doze off along the way), but that's a powerful lot of "Thirty-two, two, three, four" to work through.
It does have a number of lovely 'cello solos scattered through it - made even more entertaining if there is a lovely 'cello player playing them...
....Holst is child's play. Try sitting through the "Swan of Tuonela" a few times and test your counting skills there. A bazillion bars of rest, followed by a six bar solo, another pile of rests, and then sixteen bars of "potato farming" (playing whole notes). For consistency, your part ends up with another rest.
As the piece is primarily an English horn solo, you do have something to reckon your place in the music against (and my part has always had ample cues should you doze off along the way), but that's a powerful lot of "Thirty-two, two, three, four" to work through.
It does have a number of lovely 'cello solos scattered through it - made even more entertaining if there is a lovely 'cello player playing them...
I'm playing on a Fobes Standard model RR (1.80 mm tip) with #4 Vandoren Traditionals (black box). Lots of room for extended-technique, and general noise with the set-up. Although, when doing pit work I am known to be the King of Fibracell reeds. You don't have to keep them wet, they last a long time, etc. Espciallly when you're playing a small army single reeds in one show.
To keep this scintillating discussion going, I play Vandoren blue box 3.5s on my piece-of-**** Yamaha 4C, with the corresponding piece-of-**** 221-ii clarinet (luckily not mine). I might get a deal on a 1970s selmer that needs a major overhaul, but it's not set in stone yet, and I'm not ever sure I can afford it...
As to the counting thing: I find it much easier to just learn cues, and thereby avoid counting wrong and getting the glare of shame from the conductor. We do tend to play a lot of moderny-type stuff that's just impossible to count though, that might have something to do with it. (We just had john mackey in town.)
As to the counting thing: I find it much easier to just learn cues, and thereby avoid counting wrong and getting the glare of shame from the conductor. We do tend to play a lot of moderny-type stuff that's just impossible to count though, that might have something to do with it. (We just had john mackey in town.)
Reed strength is something that has to be considered in conjunction with the mouthpiece facing used - a long, gradual facing is more amiable to high reed strengths. So, this will depend on what mouthpiece you adopt when you acquire your new instrument.
I used to play hard reeds on the bass clarinet (3 Vandoren purple box things), but since getting away from classical bass clarinet playing, I have moved to a very open facing (a Selmer G, to be precise). I have found that moving to a weaker reed strength has made for a better tone and facility with this open facing.
Your mileage may vary, of course. But, experimenting with reed strengths is comparatively cheap, and it should be the first alternative that a player explores, before moving to new ligatures, new mouthpieces, or new barrels and necks (in that order).
As for counting rests, it's a skill that you (as a musician) ought to have. I employ guys and gals who often come for one or two rehearsals before doing a gig (and, occasionally, have people who have a five minute review before a performance, with zero rehearsal). Those who fit my sub list have to be able to work from the chart, and cannot rely on a cue that (to be fair to all) just might not be there when it is listened for.
On something like The Swan Of Tuonela, where the bass clarinet part consists of a bazillion bars of rest, followed by a four bar solo that is very prominent, followed by dozens of additional bars of rest, followed by sixteen or so bars of whole notes, cues are going to be needed. In the ten or so times that I've played it, I've lost count two or three times, and was grateful for the solo english horn part cues, printed out in the bass clarinet chart.
But, for normal, day to day playing, you just have to focus enough to not be confused by the difference between "32 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5", and "34 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5". Discipline has its place, even in music.
I used to play hard reeds on the bass clarinet (3 Vandoren purple box things), but since getting away from classical bass clarinet playing, I have moved to a very open facing (a Selmer G, to be precise). I have found that moving to a weaker reed strength has made for a better tone and facility with this open facing.
Your mileage may vary, of course. But, experimenting with reed strengths is comparatively cheap, and it should be the first alternative that a player explores, before moving to new ligatures, new mouthpieces, or new barrels and necks (in that order).
As for counting rests, it's a skill that you (as a musician) ought to have. I employ guys and gals who often come for one or two rehearsals before doing a gig (and, occasionally, have people who have a five minute review before a performance, with zero rehearsal). Those who fit my sub list have to be able to work from the chart, and cannot rely on a cue that (to be fair to all) just might not be there when it is listened for.
On something like The Swan Of Tuonela, where the bass clarinet part consists of a bazillion bars of rest, followed by a four bar solo that is very prominent, followed by dozens of additional bars of rest, followed by sixteen or so bars of whole notes, cues are going to be needed. In the ten or so times that I've played it, I've lost count two or three times, and was grateful for the solo english horn part cues, printed out in the bass clarinet chart.
But, for normal, day to day playing, you just have to focus enough to not be confused by the difference between "32 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5", and "34 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5". Discipline has its place, even in music.
