Bundy or Yamaha ?

Pierre

Hello everyone !

First post on this forum :)

So I'm trying to add Bass Clarinet to my instrument list as it's both a fun instrument and a rather marketable one for pit jobs.
I've been reading posts over the internet basically for the whole weekend (!) as buying new instruments is a rather stressing experience.

I'm looking for an instrument that does its job. But obviously, I don't have the money to have professional versions of all of my horns, especially for the more expensive ones (eg the Bass Clarinet), so I'll have to compromise and get at most an intermediate-level Bass. Unfortunately, from what I gather you either have student or pro horns, so I guess my wallet wants me to buy the student version.

Anyway.

I narrowed down the possibilities to what was available here (Belgium) and what was in my budget and then looked at some recomendations from all over the internet.

So in my current state I'm still unsure, hesitating between 2 horns. Either the Yamaha-221 II S (what does the 'S' mean by the way ?), or the Bundy BBC Series. I read great thing about both. Many times I have heard that the Yamaha was the best plastic one out there but I also heard it had tuning issues (playing sharp). But here in Europe, tuning standard is 442 and not 440 like the US so maybe it's less of an issue I don't know.
I've also read very good things about the Bundy but mostly as used horns, I don't know what current ones are worth ?
Also there's the price : the Yamaha is nearly twice as expensive as the Bundy. 1000€ for Bundy and 2400€ for Yamaha.
1000€ sounds very cheap for a new Bass and that's what is kind of putting me off right now.

What are your recomendations ? Is the Bundy still a great choice nowadays ? Why is it so cheap ? And is the Yamaha worth it ? What about its tuning problems ?
I'm ready to pay the 2400€ for the Yamaha if it is indeed the best plastic horn out there, but I want to be sure I can't have the same or maybe even better with the Bundy.

Thanks all for your help,

Also, while I've been playing the clarinet for many years now, my Bass Clarinet experience is next to nonexistent, so trying them out would mean nothing I believe ?

Pierre
 
Every Bundy bass that I have every played trended sharp in a big way. It can be compensated for, and in Europe, the higher pitch isn't as big of a downer as it is here.

In spite of playing bass for over fifty years now, I have had relatively little experience on horns outside of the Selmer and Leblanc paddocks. (I own and have owned older Buffet horns, but never have been able to trial a selection of same of newer vintage, as their reps were too tight with the horns and would not provide a selection to choose from. Their loss, my gain.)

If you are looking to do more than screw around for fun on the bass, I would recommend biting the bullet and purchasing a used Selmer (Paris) instrument with the lower joint linked register mechanism. They play smoother over the first break, and are quality instruments that age well. Shop eBay, do some scrimping, and end up with an instrument that will cut the mustard better than a plastic high school dent collector. And, if you settle for a range to low Eb instrument, you can get them at a reasonable price.
 
S = "Silver Plated Keywork." If you're not allergic to nickel and you don't believe that the plating on the keywork affects tone, you might be able to save some cash by getting the nickel-plated keywork version.

I'm fairly sure that the Bundy BBC is made in Taiwan or China, thus the low price. I also quickly went past a music store that posted that the Bundy BBC had a keyed range to low E, rather than Eb. (Of course, a low C bass would be a pro horn and probably out of your price range.)

A=442hz is a European orchestral standard, from what I understand. However, I've tested and know that you can play an A=440hz instrument in an A=442hz ensemble fairly easily. You just have to listen a bit to get the intonation down.

If you really don't have the cash, I recommend eBay and setting aside some cash for repairs. I do know that some folks won't ship internationally, but a lot do or will just ask you to pay for shipping.
 
I am indeed looking to do more than screw around for fun, but I'm not aiming to become a soloist either. It would mainly be to bring in pits along my other horns. Always been a bit reluctant to ebay when it comes to used horns as I often prefer to try them out myself first, also haven't tried vintage horns for instruments other than saxes (for which I actually try to avoid new horns).

My flute for example is an intermediate-level Yamaha. If I stay away from lead flute books, it really does the trick. I'm looking for the same kind of horn for a bass clarinet.

Thanks for the input anyway, SOTSDO
 
Low E range bass clarinets are mighty thin on the ground these days. I started on one as a child, and I currently have a couple of them (one French, one Italian, both "Albert" system horns), but they went out of style when the semi-mythical bass clarinet in A fell out of fashion. The low Eb extension was implemented to cut down the portage load on the poor classical bass clarinet/3rd clarinet player.
 
(Yamahas come in Silverplate only, here in Europe)

I can recommend the Jupiter 675S, it's quite a bit cheaper than the Yamaha, design-wise it's a copy of the Leblanc/Yamaha 220. I am very happy with it, good sturdy instrument with decent build quality.
 
pete said:
I do know that some folks won't ship internationally, but a lot do or will just ask you to pay for shipping.
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I'm not sure why I didn't add this before.

I played around with the eBay tool that calculates shipping and other import charges. You're looking at about $300 on an $500 bass clarinet. That's still under 1000 Euros.

============

eBay can be a good idea, if you get a name-brand horn from a seller with lots of good feedback -- and set aside at least $300 for repairs. It also never hurts to ask a seller, either.

============

Also remember that a decent BC will sound a lot better with a good mouthpiece. If you don't have one, I'd recommend setting aside cash for one. I'm pretty sure the Bundy will have some mouthpiece-shaped-object that will allow you to make the horn go "toot." The Yamaha will have an OK plastic mouthpiece based on a Vandoren design.

I just wanted to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
 
pete said:
I played around with the eBay tool that calculates shipping and other import charges. You're looking at about $300 on an $500 bass clarinet. That's still under 1000 Euros.
Click to expand...
I'd avoid "private" shippers like UPS like the plague and insist on USPS. Not only are they magnitudes more expensive (check out UPS's "worldwide saver" and you'll see what I mean) than USPS but also a hassle to deal with when you're not at home when the parcel is to be delivered. Compare costs and ask the seller about shipping alternatives.
 
Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate it.

I tried to replied earlier but for some reason my post didn't make it to the thread, so here is roughly it :

I've never been too keen on using ebay when it comes to used horn. I've always prefered to go and actually try the stuff before I buy it. Also, I've never really trusted old horns for anything except saxophones (for which I actually never buy new horns, as a matter of fact), as I've always been told they don't really age well.

Not sure I'm ready for this double step yet...

So I'm basically looking for an instrument that will get the job done when I have to play bass clarinet in pit orchestra, not necessarily as a soloist. For example, my flute is an intermediate-level Yamaha flute. It's not perfect, but if I stay away from lead flute books or at least straight flute books, it really is ok.

Hopefully in the future I'll be able to get an outstanding low C wooden double register vent golden plated bass clarinet but till then I'll bare with intermediate instruments.

Re the Jupiter I saw that one as well but I don't really trust Jupiter... Is it better than the Yamaha ? If it's a copy of the Yamaha 220, and since I assume the Yamaha 221 II is an upgrade from that design, it must be of lower quality ?

What about the Bundy ? I love Selmer saxophones but I don't know about the Bundy bass clarinets...

Thanks again
 
Regardless of where you decide to go, I'd avoid the extended range bass. Too much cost, not enough call for one. (And I speak as a guy who has owned an extended range horn for over forty years...)
 
Yes, SOTSDO, I wasn't going to buy an extended range one (for now at least). I can still play an octava higher in case I face the lower notes. Not sure 3 notes, no matter how epic they sound, would justify the price (for me and for now at least).
 
Jupiter has gotten a lot better. I'd believe that you probably can't discount them as "poor quality" instruments anymore. Are they as "good as" a Yamaha? I think it's a question of taste, now.

I think I've played one or two Selmer USA-made Bundy bass clarinets. They weren't outstanding in any way. They also weren't bad enough for me to stick them into the, "These horns suck," category. As I said, the Bundy BBC that you're talking about is totally different from the old Selmer USA Bundy.

If you really have only the two choices, ask if you can order both and then have your instructor play-test them -- and send the one that he doesn't like back.

Personally, provided you're buying from an eBayer with a bazillion sales and good feedback, all you really have to do is set aside about $300 to get the horn adjusted properly when you get it.
 
Pvyncke said:
Re the Jupiter I saw that one as well but I don't really trust Jupiter... Is it better than the Yamaha ? If it's a copy of the Yamaha 220, and since I assume the Yamaha 221 II is an upgrade from that design, it must be of lower quality ?
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Actually the Yamaha 220 was based on a Leblanc design (or Leblanc even manufactured it, I don't know).
That being said, one design or other has nothing to do with build quality. Jupiter might have had a similar rap as eg Toyota did as a car maker in the '70s. Both have evolved in the meantime.
I didn't find anything "cheaply made" on my Juppie.

Maybe Tasset let you try-before-you buy? (I bought mine from Thoman with a 30 day money back guarantee, maybe you can deal with them as suggested above, get both the Yammie and the Juppie and send one back after trial)
 
Thanks again for all the answers.

Unfortunately not the money to buy both horns (even getting the money back from one horn sending it back afterwards I have to pay for both at the start).

But now you got me interested into the Jupiter bass clarinet. Tasset sells the Jupiter 675S (with no number afterwards so I guess it's "I" ?) and Thomann sells the Jupiter 675S II. Any idea what the difference might be if any ?
 
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