40 years ago my first decent clarinet was a Buffet. It was second hand purchased from my teacher who was an army bandsman. It was a lovley instrument, one thing that was differnt to anyother clarinet I have ever seen was that the C/Gsharp key hole was drilled through the joint and the key came up from the bottom half of the instrument. The benefit was that I could hold it down when playing other notes. At the time i was only about 14 and my memory may be hazy. My teacher said it was an articulated c shape key. One day some 10 years later after I had stopped playing my old clarinet teacher persuaded me that i should swap it with another better instument he had becasue the guy who used to own it wanted it back. Like a fool i let him swap them. The other instrument was no where near as good but it was too late to get back my baby. Does anyone know which instrument it was and does any other instument have the adaptation.
Csharp key
- Thread starter Rosemary
- Start date
Articulated C# key clarinets
You have one sure option for this, and a few "if you are lucky" ones:
Your One "Can't Miss" Option:
The only maker to consistently offer an articulated C# key is Amati. They offer it on their "full Boehm" clarinet, for which you will expect to pay a premium if you decide to buy one. Woodwind and Brasswind, the on-line everything music operation will get you one in a week or so, for a little more than you would expect to pay for a basic professional clarinet from any of the French or Japanese makers.
Be prepared to accept less than optimal finish on the instrument. My Oehler "professional" horn from the same maker is not up to French standards of fit and finish. You may see any of the following, all of which can be fixed but a price to you:
1) Tone holes with rough edges, caused by dull fly cutters
2) Rough finish on the back of keywork (cosmetic, but still)
3) Poor workmanship on key work (I had a stopper post (under a long key on the bottom joint) that fell out when the key on top of it was removed; thank God that Fred (my chosen repair guy in the Houston area) wears a "dropped screw" apron when he works, or we would have had one hell of a time getting a replacement part)
4) Poorly adjusted key work (my rings were set WAY too high for my fingers to seal the holes)
5) Poorly set pads.
The maker's marks on the front of the horn are also butt ugly...
Your Other Options (Which Are Not So Certain):
The other options are all either completely custom (Orsi will build you anything if you have the bails of lira to spend) or aftermarket:
1) My favorite, and the most attainable by a long shot, is to shop eBay for a "no cracks" Selmer Series 9 horn. You can usually find these in one of these forms:
A) Boehm system with the articulated G# key, and fork Eb/Bb mechanism
B) Boehm system with the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism and low Eb key
C) "Full" Boehm system with the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism, LH Eb lever and low Eb key
Remarkably, one seldom sees a horn with just the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism and the LH Eb lever. I don't know why this is; they certainly had them in stock when I picked out my instrument, and my (used and rebuilt) Series 10 is so configured. But, they just don't show up.
The "Don't Say I Didn't Tell You About This One" Option:
You can also find Selmer metal clarinets with the above variations of key work. Despite popular opinion that "all metal clarinets are junk", these Selmer horns are anything but. I have one, sitting in the closet and as of yet unrefurbished - the sliver plating is the main obstacle to a complete overhaul.
If you wait around a while, perhaps Chris P will post a knuckle-bitingly beautiful photos of his two horns of this ilk.
( Every time I see that photo, I hate that guy a little more. Envy can do that to you...)
Your "We're Running Out Of Options Here" Options:
You will also occasionally find other Selmer clarinets so equipped. If your tastes run to Buffet instruments, a Series 10 or 10S instrument so configured will occasionally surface.
Also seen are earlier Selmer models like the Centered Tone that are provided with this key work. However, the older horns are often banded (to repair cracks) or cracked, and are not provided with such modern improvements as the poly cylindrical bores.
And Then There's Leblanc:
Run by a differently thinking bunch over in France, Leblanc Paris used to be the last refuge of the full "Boehm" clarinets. At one time, their catalog was a smorgasbord of special key work instruments, horns that you could order off of the rack. Sadly, this is no longer the case, and (despite a breathtaking assortment once seen in the catalog) such instruments seldom appear on the secondary market.
I do a sweep of eBay every other month or so, just to see what can be had, and (in years of doing this) I have seen only one Leblanc instrument with "auxiliary" key work, that being a Boehm system with the articulated G# key and fork Eb/Bb mechanism. The firm used to offer a Pete Fountain model with gold plated key work and everything but the low Eb key, but those have disappeared from both the catalog and the secondary market, as if dropped in a bottomless pit.
Slim To No Chance, Bottom Of The Barrel, Options:
You will (VERY) occasionally see a Buffet instrument with variations on the full Boehm setup. Occasionally means I've seen maybe two of these over the years.
As for Boosey-Hawkes, I have never seen such an instrument. I have seen precious few B&H horns of any stripe, much less an up-end horn with the extra key work.
And, Heckel once made them. I've never seen a Heckel full "Boehm" horn, this in forty years of looking.
So, there are your options. If I was to bet on your success, I'd put my money on a decent Series 9, purchased off of eBay and rebuilt by a competent repair person. But, then again, I'm biased in that direction...
Just out of curiosity (and as a service to you, the clarinet user and consumer), I'm going to do an "eBay census" right now, just to see what your chances are.
You have one sure option for this, and a few "if you are lucky" ones:
Your One "Can't Miss" Option:
The only maker to consistently offer an articulated C# key is Amati. They offer it on their "full Boehm" clarinet, for which you will expect to pay a premium if you decide to buy one. Woodwind and Brasswind, the on-line everything music operation will get you one in a week or so, for a little more than you would expect to pay for a basic professional clarinet from any of the French or Japanese makers.
Be prepared to accept less than optimal finish on the instrument. My Oehler "professional" horn from the same maker is not up to French standards of fit and finish. You may see any of the following, all of which can be fixed but a price to you:
1) Tone holes with rough edges, caused by dull fly cutters
2) Rough finish on the back of keywork (cosmetic, but still)
3) Poor workmanship on key work (I had a stopper post (under a long key on the bottom joint) that fell out when the key on top of it was removed; thank God that Fred (my chosen repair guy in the Houston area) wears a "dropped screw" apron when he works, or we would have had one hell of a time getting a replacement part)
4) Poorly adjusted key work (my rings were set WAY too high for my fingers to seal the holes)
5) Poorly set pads.
The maker's marks on the front of the horn are also butt ugly...
Your Other Options (Which Are Not So Certain):
The other options are all either completely custom (Orsi will build you anything if you have the bails of lira to spend) or aftermarket:
1) My favorite, and the most attainable by a long shot, is to shop eBay for a "no cracks" Selmer Series 9 horn. You can usually find these in one of these forms:
A) Boehm system with the articulated G# key, and fork Eb/Bb mechanism
B) Boehm system with the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism and low Eb key
C) "Full" Boehm system with the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism, LH Eb lever and low Eb key
Remarkably, one seldom sees a horn with just the articulated G# key, fork Eb/Bb mechanism and the LH Eb lever. I don't know why this is; they certainly had them in stock when I picked out my instrument, and my (used and rebuilt) Series 10 is so configured. But, they just don't show up.
The "Don't Say I Didn't Tell You About This One" Option:
You can also find Selmer metal clarinets with the above variations of key work. Despite popular opinion that "all metal clarinets are junk", these Selmer horns are anything but. I have one, sitting in the closet and as of yet unrefurbished - the sliver plating is the main obstacle to a complete overhaul.
If you wait around a while, perhaps Chris P will post a knuckle-bitingly beautiful photos of his two horns of this ilk.
( Every time I see that photo, I hate that guy a little more. Envy can do that to you...)
Your "We're Running Out Of Options Here" Options:
You will also occasionally find other Selmer clarinets so equipped. If your tastes run to Buffet instruments, a Series 10 or 10S instrument so configured will occasionally surface.
Also seen are earlier Selmer models like the Centered Tone that are provided with this key work. However, the older horns are often banded (to repair cracks) or cracked, and are not provided with such modern improvements as the poly cylindrical bores.
And Then There's Leblanc:
Run by a differently thinking bunch over in France, Leblanc Paris used to be the last refuge of the full "Boehm" clarinets. At one time, their catalog was a smorgasbord of special key work instruments, horns that you could order off of the rack. Sadly, this is no longer the case, and (despite a breathtaking assortment once seen in the catalog) such instruments seldom appear on the secondary market.
I do a sweep of eBay every other month or so, just to see what can be had, and (in years of doing this) I have seen only one Leblanc instrument with "auxiliary" key work, that being a Boehm system with the articulated G# key and fork Eb/Bb mechanism. The firm used to offer a Pete Fountain model with gold plated key work and everything but the low Eb key, but those have disappeared from both the catalog and the secondary market, as if dropped in a bottomless pit.
Slim To No Chance, Bottom Of The Barrel, Options:
You will (VERY) occasionally see a Buffet instrument with variations on the full Boehm setup. Occasionally means I've seen maybe two of these over the years.
As for Boosey-Hawkes, I have never seen such an instrument. I have seen precious few B&H horns of any stripe, much less an up-end horn with the extra key work.
And, Heckel once made them. I've never seen a Heckel full "Boehm" horn, this in forty years of looking.
So, there are your options. If I was to bet on your success, I'd put my money on a decent Series 9, purchased off of eBay and rebuilt by a competent repair person. But, then again, I'm biased in that direction...
Just out of curiosity (and as a service to you, the clarinet user and consumer), I'm going to do an "eBay census" right now, just to see what your chances are.
I playing one of those Selmer Paris (silver plated) clarinets that Terry talks about tonight at a Big Band gig. I'll try to get a recording. It sounds really nice and surprises those who think metal clarinets are all bad. Chris J has a set of Bb and A clarinets like these. Very sexy that.
Last edited:
And...
...did you mention that I hate him for it?
Here is as comprehensive a listing as you are going to find for the current first seventy (70!!!) pages of eBay auctions of clarinets with more than the standard 17/6 keywork:
(Note that, due to some eBay listers' sleazy practices of listing the same thing twice, there may be some duplication here.)
Selmer Series 9 Full Boehm and extra keywork:
Series 9, full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-9-FULL-B...tDomain_0&hash=item45f83103d4#ht_12742wt_1141
Selmer Series 9 era with fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AWESOME-SELMER-...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2c5d295#ht_720wt_1141
Selmer Series 9*, in A, full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Cl...ultDomain_0&hash=item41565b37e4#ht_500wt_1156
Older Selmer Horns:
Series K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-9-FULL-B...tDomain_0&hash=item45f83103d4#ht_12742wt_1141
Another Series K, full Boehm with two bells and two barrels:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-Bb-Clari...ltDomain_0&hash=item2a0da57cc1#ht_2004wt_1141
Radio Improved, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-Selmer-RI-...aultDomain_0&hash=item19b8bcc9b8#ht_907wt_907
Radio Improved, articulated C#, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-radio-im...ultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7ec1e80#ht_4562wt_907
Centered Tone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Centered...ultDomain_0&hash=item255f76c68a#ht_500wt_1156
Centered Tone, articulated G#, fork Eb, no low Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Fr...ultDomain_0&hash=item230da24fb0#ht_500wt_1156
Balanced Tone, articulated C# and fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Benny-Go...ultDomain_0&hash=item45f851092f#ht_500wt_1156
Another one of the same:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Selmer-...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2a50773#ht_785wt_1141
Unknown series, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-FRANCE-B...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2c4c68c#ht_500wt_1156
Unknown Series, in A, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Clarinet...ltDomain_0&hash=item43a4d65c38#ht_2067wt_1141
Unknown series in A, fork Eb, articulated G#, LH Eb lever, Low Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Selmer-...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a59684dbe#ht_1228wt_907
Unknown series; full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Wo...ltDomain_0&hash=item41566b4bfa#ht_3560wt_1141
Other Manufacturers:
Leblanc Dynamic H, articulated C#, fork Eb (a bargain horn):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pete-Fountain-L...ultDomain_0&hash=item3364868587#ht_500wt_1156
Old Buffet one piece extended range instrument; may have articulated C#:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Vintage-Bu...ltDomain_0&hash=item41566b3f3c#ht_5845wt_1141
A Diefrich full Boehm horn, whoever he or they were:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Bohm-syste...ultDomain_0&hash=item336471c308#ht_500wt_1156
Leblanc Bb Stubbins SK horn, with fork Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Leblanc...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a5bdf2032#ht_1282wt_907
As you can see, the Selmer horns outnumber the others by far more than a two to one margin. I have no idea why this is, as Leblanc sold them for far longer than Selmer did. Go figure...
Only at The Woodwind Forum do you get such full service!
...did you mention that I hate him for it?
Here is as comprehensive a listing as you are going to find for the current first seventy (70!!!) pages of eBay auctions of clarinets with more than the standard 17/6 keywork:
(Note that, due to some eBay listers' sleazy practices of listing the same thing twice, there may be some duplication here.)
Selmer Series 9 Full Boehm and extra keywork:
Series 9, full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-9-FULL-B...tDomain_0&hash=item45f83103d4#ht_12742wt_1141
Selmer Series 9 era with fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AWESOME-SELMER-...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2c5d295#ht_720wt_1141
Selmer Series 9*, in A, full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Cl...ultDomain_0&hash=item41565b37e4#ht_500wt_1156
Older Selmer Horns:
Series K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-9-FULL-B...tDomain_0&hash=item45f83103d4#ht_12742wt_1141
Another Series K, full Boehm with two bells and two barrels:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-Bb-Clari...ltDomain_0&hash=item2a0da57cc1#ht_2004wt_1141
Radio Improved, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-Selmer-RI-...aultDomain_0&hash=item19b8bcc9b8#ht_907wt_907
Radio Improved, articulated C#, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-radio-im...ultDomain_0&hash=item4aa7ec1e80#ht_4562wt_907
Centered Tone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Centered...ultDomain_0&hash=item255f76c68a#ht_500wt_1156
Centered Tone, articulated G#, fork Eb, no low Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Fr...ultDomain_0&hash=item230da24fb0#ht_500wt_1156
Balanced Tone, articulated C# and fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Benny-Go...ultDomain_0&hash=item45f851092f#ht_500wt_1156
Another one of the same:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Selmer-...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2a50773#ht_785wt_1141
Unknown series, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SELMER-FRANCE-B...ultDomain_0&hash=item19c2c4c68c#ht_500wt_1156
Unknown Series, in A, fork Eb only:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Clarinet...ltDomain_0&hash=item43a4d65c38#ht_2067wt_1141
Unknown series in A, fork Eb, articulated G#, LH Eb lever, Low Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Selmer-...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a59684dbe#ht_1228wt_907
Unknown series; full Boehm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Selmer-Paris-Wo...ltDomain_0&hash=item41566b4bfa#ht_3560wt_1141
Other Manufacturers:
Leblanc Dynamic H, articulated C#, fork Eb (a bargain horn):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pete-Fountain-L...ultDomain_0&hash=item3364868587#ht_500wt_1156
Old Buffet one piece extended range instrument; may have articulated C#:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Vintage-Bu...ltDomain_0&hash=item41566b3f3c#ht_5845wt_1141
A Diefrich full Boehm horn, whoever he or they were:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Full-Bohm-syste...ultDomain_0&hash=item336471c308#ht_500wt_1156
Leblanc Bb Stubbins SK horn, with fork Eb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Leblanc...ultDomain_0&hash=item3a5bdf2032#ht_1282wt_907
As you can see, the Selmer horns outnumber the others by far more than a two to one margin. I have no idea why this is, as Leblanc sold them for far longer than Selmer did. Go figure...
Only at The Woodwind Forum do you get such full service!
But Buffet makes a better articulated C#/G# !! 
I've had several clarinets this particular keywork.
http://www.ClarinetPerfection.com/MyClarinets.htm
I especially like the Buffets. especially if they had the 3rd key ring as it is offset. Of the Selmers that I have had the 3rd ring key has been inline.
As Terry has mentioned Buffets are harder to come by but they are not non-existant. You can use the link above to see closeup of the hole through the tenon design in the Selmer CT enhanced boehm, Buffet Full Boehm, and Buffet modified boehm A examples.
Do you know if you had an R13 or a pre-R13 model ?
I've had several clarinets this particular keywork.
http://www.ClarinetPerfection.com/MyClarinets.htm
I especially like the Buffets. especially if they had the 3rd key ring as it is offset. Of the Selmers that I have had the 3rd ring key has been inline.
As Terry has mentioned Buffets are harder to come by but they are not non-existant. You can use the link above to see closeup of the hole through the tenon design in the Selmer CT enhanced boehm, Buffet Full Boehm, and Buffet modified boehm A examples.
Do you know if you had an R13 or a pre-R13 model ?
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge. I miss my dear old horn even more now, knowing I will never be able to aford to replace it. As I say I was a kid, all I can remember is that is was marked Buffet paris. It did not carry a model number and I did not take note of the serial number. I know it had a wonderful tone but I misstreated it and by the time I lost it it needed a major overhaul. Regrets are pointless I know but it will always be the one that got away.
If I win the lottery I now have a new number 1 on my list of must buys. I will however keep my eyes on e bay for a knackered instrument I can get refurbed. I notice most of them seem to be on your side of the briney. We are after all a very small island in comparison.
If I win the lottery I now have a new number 1 on my list of must buys. I will however keep my eyes on e bay for a knackered instrument I can get refurbed. I notice most of them seem to be on your side of the briney. We are after all a very small island in comparison.
I know it has been a long time, but do you happen to remember if the throat key posts shared a post (3 total) or they were all independent (4 total, 2 each)
(go to Pre-R13 / 1941-1950 section) and compare the throat key set up versus the later R13 setup
http://www.ClarinetPerfection.com/clsnBuffet.htm
because if it had 4 the cost basically doubles to replace it. if it was shared then they are fairly affordable, by comparison.
(go to Pre-R13 / 1941-1950 section) and compare the throat key set up versus the later R13 setup
http://www.ClarinetPerfection.com/clsnBuffet.htm
because if it had 4 the cost basically doubles to replace it. if it was shared then they are fairly affordable, by comparison.
Just to be clear, I am Chris J (there is a Chris P, who is far more accomplished and knowledgeable in all things woodwind. He is Chris Peryagh)
Well, not sure you brought it on for yourself, or I brought it on for myself - but not one to back down from an opportunity to share...
Here are my metal Selmers:
I can add a Silver King to the list with this mechanism:
And I can also share a Leblanc LL photo:
And they were all bought in UK from Ebay, so don't give up hope!
Chris
Some people...
...just have no class...
What I'd really like to get my hands on is one of the fluted barrels for a metal Selmer Bb. Some yobbo used pliers to get the one loose on my metal Selmer, and the thing is all scratched up from their efforts.
For that matter, I'd like to get my hands on a metal Selmer HS** mouthpiece to go with the horn.
...just have no class...
What I'd really like to get my hands on is one of the fluted barrels for a metal Selmer Bb. Some yobbo used pliers to get the one loose on my metal Selmer, and the thing is all scratched up from their efforts.
For that matter, I'd like to get my hands on a metal Selmer HS** mouthpiece to go with the horn.