Fake Selmers

Wanna buy my father's Strad? I'll sell it for a million bucks. Comes complete with case and bow.
No gloves? No deal.

In a way, we tricked ourselves out, by our own fault. I mean, we're not far from ancient grail-seekers and gold-mixers, believing that only a MK VI (talk with a Jaguar owner about MKs...) or "Radio improved", or maybe a 'Betta Bunga' delivers. It's no surprise we are potential bait for counterfeiters, as we stubbornly believe more in a (fake? real?) emblem than we trust our ears or fingers.

Maybe we should try instruments blindfolded, as we demand judges do before an audition.

Oops, sorry for digressing.
 
TTT, you're talking sense. Stop it!

:p

If you've ever asked yourself, "Gee, I get a zillion spam e-mails from Nigeria every day, claiming I can get a Sagan's Worth of dollars if I send them my personal info. 419 scams have been around for at least 10 years. Everyone knows about them! Why do they even bother sending out those e-mails anymore?", I can tell you the answer: because there are a lot of greedy, naive (at best) people out there.

As said, I just like looking at these knock-offs. I wonder if there's a Selma Mark VI Rolexx edition. I bet those would be worth a lot ....
 
I know I'll get some disagreement on this, but IMHO, the Mark VI is currently over-rated and over-priced way above it's value as a working instrument (excluding its collectible value).

It was a great sax in its day, and perhaps the reason why it is legendary is because up to that date, every Selmer had been an improvement on the previous, and then came the Mark VII which to most (including myself) was a disappointment.

Oh the VII ironed out some of the intonation problems of the VI, but the tone range and the response was severely limited.

So like the '57 Chevy it has become legendary. Unlike most '57 Chevys it still works so the legend goes on.

But in 1957 it was a rarity to drive a car 100,000 miles. "Flipping" the odometer was the cause for a party. Today I generally get over 200,000 miles on a car.

Cars like saxophones are made better today.

Sure there are differences in sax tone, but if you take the nostalgia factor out of it, the differences are not better or worse, just different.

In a behind the curtain test, most symphony violinists could not tell which violin was the Strad and which was a modern violin. The results were as accurate as if you flipped a coin to guess.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my VI, was disappointed with the VII, and loved my Couf even more than my VI. Today I'm playing a MacClassic and the intonation is better than any sax I've ever played. The tone is excellent, and although I rarely use them, the altissimo notes are much easier to play than any sax I've ever had (especially that pesky for me high G). Is the tone identical to a VI. No, but I would venture to say it is different but equal.

Would I trade it for a VI? Yes, but then I'd sell the VI, buy another MacClassic and have some money left over.

I have a 1970 Gibson ES330 that I bought for $300 and I've seen go for $5,000. I bought a new Parker DF guitar a year ago and I haven't touched the Gibson for more than a few minutes since. The new guitar has better tone, better action, and better ergonomics. It doesn't have the nostalgia value. As soon as the economy picks up, I plan on selling the Gibson.

Newer isn't always better. But for many things, the science of manufacturing a quality product has improved in the past 50 years and it is quite possible to make something better than it was a half century ago.

So if you want that VI, 57 Chevy, Strad, SilverSonic, Louix XIV Breakfront (whatever that is), original Barbie doll, Commodore 64, or whatever for its collectible value or its nostalgia value, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. But if you do, don't go shopping on eBay for it without a return policy and an expert to evaluate it when it arrives.

Insights and incites by Notes
 
I buy everything you said - except the violin parts. A new violin can be made to sound like a strad - this is not a problem - the problem is that the sound on new instruments (bowed strings) changes as the instruments are played. They settle in to their sound over a period of years. These instruments that sound like a proper strad sound their very best when new, but their tone degrades as they age, whereas an instrument properly designed will get better the more it is played.

I have instruments 250 years old and older which are magnificent instruments and are worth far more now than when I acquired them. I could sell them for a significant profit, but it would cost even more to purchase such an instrument now on the retail end of things, and prices aren't going to drop either.

Since I am semi-retired from being a working pro, these fine instruments are living inside of their cases and a crappy $69 ebay electric violin is getting most of the play these days. Being a tech I was able to give this thing a proper setup and see to it that everything works as it should - not as it was designed/built. It is now properly set up and plays quite well, not to mention sounding very good when plugged in to a suitable amplifier. For doing theater work this thing is awesome - I can play at the volume level most comfortable for me and change overall volume by twisting a knob or using a pedal.

I'd guess that with my wireless I could even solo in front of an orchestra with this thing successfully if I wanted to, but it really is no contest between this thing and a master instrument. This thing lacks nuances and finesse which are present in a master instrument and can never be duplicated electronically.

To bring it back to saxes, My Barone soprano is every bit the equal to every other pro soprano I have ever played. I've played a MK VI, a Yani, Buescher TT, Conn, Yamaha and some cruddy student things. A pro horn is a pro horn and if it plays well, it plays well. While the Barone falls closer in price to the crappy offerings, in performance it is the equal of any pro horn out there. In this case, I cannot see spending money just to have a name/pedigree when these things don't produce a sound, it is the hunk of metal I bought which does that.

Oh, and for the record, my Barone is a prototype - it doesn't even say Barone on it - or made in anywhere either! I'm playing a sax, not an EWI or a name.
 
Mr. Notes, I guess that this thing of old versus new is a matter of personal preference, or possibly how one looks at things. Or maybe what results we're expecting from a horn.

I can't get the new horns to vibrate the way I need a horn to. I have no problem with my old mk6, but the new one's don't give me the results.

Just last week I brought two altos to Bill Singer, my repair tech. One was my regular gig horn, an old gold plated mk6, 58,5xx, and the other a Selmer Reference I bought new in 2003. The reference needed minor repair due to some wear issues, and the 6 needed routine maintanence. Bill finished the work on both at about the same time and both horns were playing pretty much to their optimum capabilities. I blew the 6 to check out the work done, and the horn rang like a bell, filling the room with resonance. When I blew the ref in Bill's little room, the sound was amazing....it's an incredible saxophone. But it didn't have the resonance that the mk6 had, what I heard coming back off the walls was lacking a bit from the mk6. Bill mentioned that also, as did another player who was there waiting to pick up his horn.

So yesterday, I was here doing my usual woodshed, and I pulled out my ref just to have a change of pace. And I was also considering taking it to the rehearsal I had later that evening. Man, it's a great horn, amazing. But after about a half hour of playing I started getting a little tired. (yeah I'm old, I know) I found my fingers reaching a little bit for things that are right there on the 6, and the horn began to be a little heavy hanging around my neck. So, like a moth to the flame, I instinctively went back to the 6.

Don't get me wrong, the ref is a great horn. I pick it up and it does show me how far the saxophone has progressed since 1954. But for me the mk6 is the most comfortable horn over the long run. The horn vibrates well for me, and the sound flows exactly the way I want it to.

I've also recently put in time on a friends nice little Chinese made alto, I can't remember the name, and my student brought me a pair of stoned Cannonballs to try, an alto and a tenor, and a guy at the music store recently handed me his brand new top of the line Yamaha alto for me to evaluate. All of these horns seemed to be the 2011 state of the art, ranging from very nice to terrific, but none..... had the buzz that makes me happy, they don't vibrate for me. So I'm sticking with the mk6.

Julian
 
I wonder how much familiarity - or exposure - has to do with how we perceive our horns. When I first got my Hohner Tenor ('54) I was blown away by its big voice, this thing just rang out. After about 10 days I was frustrated by how some notes didn't ring as well as others - middle D in particular. It seemed like there was a sock stuffed in there that only affected that note. After living with it for some years I picked up a Gretch Commander - Conn 10m with new wonder keywork - in totally trashed condition - not able to even play open C#. After a rebuild by a killer tech, this thing is an AMAZING sax. Since it was trashed I had some mods done to suit my playing and physiology - strap ring moved, hey heights altered... It's a killer R&R horn, but it seems to go directly from subtone to rip your face off, which was exactly what I was looking for for a Pink Floyd tribute gig.

The Gretsch is a very good sax, but after putting it aside to play Lt Kijé, I realized the notes which had bothered me so much on the Hohner seemed to have vanished. Playing this horn seemed like going home - the sounds were right and it was what I was expecting to hear, based on what I was giving the horn. It was singing MY song, not just making sax sounds.


How much of my impressions of these saxes was based on the horn itself, or on how much time I had spent becoming familiar with these individual instruments and the mouthpieces I was playing on them?


Another story.

A few years back(3-5?) I was at Tenor Madness having Randy do some modifications to a couple clarinets and looking for a couple clarinet barrels for a couple different clarinets. I was doing my darndest to just put the clarinet in my face and blow with no thought except blowing exactly the same for all the notes - I wanted to see exactly where intonation blew without any subconscious altering of anything to correct for what I was hearing. After a few minutes Randy said, "What are you doing, you sound like crap?!"

Attempting to remove as much as possible of the human element from my sound had left a crappy sound. I hadn't noticed as I was focused on the tuner, but I guess it was pretty gross. These were very nice instruments, but without the addition of a player's input, what was left wasn't that appealing. I still hear Randy asking me that in my head every once in a while. It motivates me to work even harder at doing everything I can to make whatever I am blowing at the time sound the best I can make it.
 
I had the same experience with the VII tenor. When I tried it out in the music store, it seemed like a great horn. The intonation was great, the tone was good at music store volume.

But gigging with it on the weekend showed me it's flaws. I couldn't overblow it and make the brass vibrate to make it sound nasty enough for the rock/blues songs that needed that grit. So I went back Monday to buy back my old VI at a loss, but it had already been sold.

Instead I got an H.Couf Superba, which turned out to be a much better horn (FOR ME) than the VI. It had a wider range of tone, it went from Getz-like to nasty easily, and had much better intonation than the VI. It served me well for many years.

The right hand keys on the Couf tenor weren't as comfortable as my VI - at least for my sized hands, but they weren't awkward by any stretch of the imagination. Plus it had the best high F# key I've ever used (of course the VI didn't have the F#).

I knew my comments about the VI would be controversial. I still think they are terribly overpriced for working instruments. I think the current prices reflect their value as collectible instruments.

My 1925 King Alto has a sweeter tone than any VI alto I've ever heard or played, but it will never fetch the VI price.

Right now, I'd put my silver colored nickel plated MacSax classic up against any VI out there. The tone would be different I'm sure, some would like it better, some wouldn't but it will be equally as good. It's heavy (I like that) comfortable to play, vibrates nicely in my hands, and has very good intonation.

Plus with the nickel plating, I don't have to worry about lacquer and corrosion.

If I still had my VI, I'd probably keep it for nostalgia/collectible reasons, but I'd play my Mac on the gig.

Of course, as always YMMV.

Notes
 
Carl H. said:
a Gretch Commander - Conn 10m with new wonder keywork
At least some of the Gretsch horns are Holtons. I've heard them described (by cybersax.com, IIRC) as a "poor man's 10M." These are the few Holtons that I've consistently heard good reports about.

BTW, the only car I regret not buying was a 1956 Chevy 210 (looked exactly like the one in this ad). It was in very good shape, minus a tear in the front seat and worn tires. My ex-wife and I have owned over 50 cars, so when I say I regret it, I really mean it.

Now, regarding the Mark VI being overrated, Selmer, themselves would agree -- especially in comparison to their new horns. I can also say that I've had my former instructor, a guy that played nothing but Selmer saxes, play two of my horns, a Buffet Dynaction alto and a Keilwerth-made Bundy baritone, and he liked the tone better. Hey, I was amazed at the tone of of the Conn 30M, especially because all of the New Wonders I've played didn't sound good, had iffy intonation and were just not that fun to play.
 
Wow, check out the super rare '56 210 2 door hardtop in the bottom picture of the ad. Try to find one of those today. Back then that body style was known as a hardtop convertable.

My childhood saxophone was a Keilwerth Bundy baritone called a 'Bundy Special,' bought new by my school when I was in 9th grade. It was a very good all around baritone, utilizing Selmer balanced action, but without the tilting spatula of the mk6. My next horn, owned by Florida A&M University was a nearly new mk6 low Bb baritone. For me, this horn was better than the Bundy Special in all aspects. The tilting spatula was a tremendous advantage for the baritone player, who spent a lot of time playing the notes that had ledger lines below the staff, or "in the basement," as we used to say. So your left hand little finger had the help it needed to go traveling amongst the neighboring low notes.

Another aspect of the mk6's existence that I must acknowledge is it's preference among full time professional musicians. I work on a daily basis with many of the top New York saxophonists, and I would say that more than 90% of the horns I see are mk6's. Super cigar cutter and pea shooters, balanced action, and sba horns are still in play. I see an occasional old Conn. The Yani alto seems to be preferred by a few players. I work with James Carter from time to time and the last time I encountered him, he was still playing P Mauriat horns, he loves 'em. But the overwhelming majority of NYC pros are still playing the mk6.

As far as the mk6 being overpriced..... jeez, they've always been expensive. Almost twice the price of a new Conn when I was shopping around for my first one back in the '60's. But if you take your time and look a little deeper, you might be able to get a deal. A name NYC tenorman I know picked up a super mint, very early production mk6 tenor for around $5,000. The horn was purchased in Wash. DC, so he didn't pay a NYC price. Another friend recently bought a very nice mk6 tenor from the 60,000 serial range for less than $6,000. This horn really sings!

Most of the new instruments don't really play like professional horns for me, they seem a little crude. I think that the player who has spent years putting in 30 to 40 hours a week on the horn is going to be more demanding than a part time pro, or a very good amateur. And maybe be able to flesh out weaknesses a little easier? The mk6 can be a little cantankerous or seem a little diffucult, but it was built to satisfy the demands of the professional player of many years ago, when the standards were higher than they are today. You might have to work a little harder to master some idiosyncrasies, but in my opinion, the work is worth the effort.

But I will acknowledge that these horns aren't for everyone, and you have to find one that hasn't been butchered over the years.....

Julian
 
saxhound said:
FWIW, I bought my Mark VI alto new in 1972 for $636 (6% tax included) - I still have the receipt around here somewhere. It's not for sale, so I don't know what it's worth right now, but I keep it insured for $5000.

Me said:
... Let's break out the Inflation Calculator. Using saxhound's price, his horn was $598, before tax. That's $3072 in today's money.
I've mentioned this somewhere else: the Mark VI is one of the very, very few saxophones that have increased by a significant percentage over their original, brand-new prices.
 
I bought my VI for $600.00. They weren't THAT expensive back then.

I think the pros playing VIs are doing it partially because it's expected and prestigious.

Similar thing happened with Yamaha wind controllers.

The WX7 came out and it was pretty good.

Then the WX11 came out and it was inferior to the 7 in features (although much more reliable).

When the WX5 was introduced, a number of 7 fans dissed it. IMHO the 5 is much better than the 7, more features, able to coax more expression out of the synth, and much more reliable. But like the VI and VII, the inferior next model made the previous model a classic.

My 1970 Gibson ES330 will fetch $4,000 (before the latest recession they were going for $5,000). I bought it for $300.

Last year Gibson re-issued it for a limited time at $2,000. The re-issue is probably better than the 1970 model. Guitar building has come a long way since then, and the lacquer on any 1970 guitar is checked. But it's old and therefore a collectible. I have a 2001 Epiphone Casino (paid $425) that is practically the same guitar, and plugged in it sounds better than the Gibson.

GuitarCousins.JPG


The newer one sounds better, the older one is worth 10 times as much.

IMHO it's because of the collectible value, not the working value.

When the market for collectible guitars goes back up, I'm planning on selling the Gibson.

Notes
 
One of the things I do when I play test an instrument is close my eyes and listen as I play the chromatic scale.

I also initially play as lightly as possible on the keywork, this to search for leaks, Even the most minute leak will make an instrument sound just "pretty good" being a far fetch away from 'great". I also do this to test the semi-tones even with alternate fingerings. I don't use a tuner in my final tests but this is probably from being able to tune a piano mostly by ear too.

Some potential identifiers for problems especially with clarinets are:
For example, on a clarinet when you play the low E or mid B press the spatula key lightly. If you press it slighty harder and the tone improves that tells you there is a slight leak on that key or maybe a linked key. It may play perfectly fine but that slight problem can make an instrument drop from a great instrument to a pretty good one.

Many potential problems for clarinets are: the front F (the key under the A throat key) is usually too low to the tonehole. The lower joint top pad is usually too low to the tonehole. And many times the larger "bell" keys are too low thus centering the tone though making it flat too. matter of fact many tonal problems on a clarinet are due to the pads being too close to the toneholes. Many "symphonic" players with lower volume airstreams might not identify the problems but play it with a high airflow and problems start sticking out like sore thumbs.

On saxes this is mostly evident on the low Bb. But as one gains more experience you can test this on nearly every key.

My Selmer mk VII alto is another example of another potential problem. Other than the fact that it's a VII ..
I had played this for years, decades actually before I thought that the tone would drop off over time.

While checking it over I found a very small cut in the palm D pad - this was after over time many repair tech looked over my sax and found nothing and before I started doing tech work. I replaced this pad and wow, the tone did a major improvement over the entire range of the horn. Believe me, people loved the tone of the horn before the "fix" but after it people loved it, even VI players that I knew. This problem also was the reason the pad would take on water and turn dark. The horn played "great" from top to bottom but even better after that one correction.

My initial tenor was a Couf for years. About a decade back I thought I needed a new pro horn so I looked at a bunch and play tested a bunch of horns (Selmer Series II, CB, Yamaha 875, etc). I've found that if you play a bright mpc on them they all kinda sound the same. If you play a dark mpc on them then this brought out the various nuances and differentiated the horns in their tonal characteristics. now keep in mind that of the players I play for they all think I'm the darkest sounding player they've heard. And back then I was able to play a 4 reed on an 8 tip. Of course I relate this to the reasoning of why I have to wear glasses now as the back pressure / head pressure probably popped my eyes out of my head :) I don't do that anymore, but the tone was awesome.

But after playing a variety of horns I bought a Cannonball. This also was the time when I was researching / testing / experimenting with the internal characteristics of necks, and the CB neck at that time was roughened up. I noticed too that the hand hammered necks that I had also had "patterns" inside. And the water pressure created ones were smooth. I found that the smoother the neck, for me, the brighter the tone. Of course I also then learned of the various neck tip openings and tested those (all other characteristics NOT being equal) and found the larger the neck opening the more spread the sound. But the sampling size was small and the analysis very limited.

But I degress

In play testing I also found that old pads, say 10 years old seemed to play perfectly fine. For say 10 minutes. Then due to their age and pourousness they would absorb some of the air moisture, expand a bit and a horn that was perfectly sealing 10 minutes ago now leaks like a seave and requires a heavy hand to close all the keys. Of course this may vary from old pad set to old pad set and use but it is something that I keep in mind anytime I play test.

Of course all this knowledge makes me think when I playtest a horn not how the horn itself currently plays but how I can put a setup on it for it to play the way I want it to play. So when I hear someone played a "bad" VI I'm always curious why is it bad - minor leaks which affect response; key corks which are too think which have the pads too close to the toneholes which affect tone and intonation; and a variety of other potential problems I've learned over the years.

But then I started researching what makes a "sweet" horn .... sooner or later I'll start accumulating various bore tapers and tonehole diameters. I've done that for clarinets, but I'm curious for saxes too.

Going back to saxes and playtesting, that CB lasted for about a year with me. I wanted something more and I had to look back at vintage saxes. I got my hands on a closet mk VII. The tone was awesome and BIG and uncontrollable unless you really blew it. But it was a beautiful horn and fantastic tone. This is where I learned about octave vent holes and the various sizes and how it can affect the tone and response. So a horn that I found to be lacking in playability, other than loud, then became very flexible for all genres of playing - I capped the octave vent to make it smaller which allowed proper pressure in the horn. How was this affecting the playability ? I noticed that when the body octave was opened the pressure in the horn dropped. This basically affected the reed. With a hard reed and large tip there was no problem. With a soft reed and small tip the pressure drop allowed the reed to slap against the facing and one would get a squeak. I tested a variety of mpc tip openings and reed strengths and I was able to feel the air pressure drop in my mouth. It was all quite interesting. Many players will say one has to work on their airstream, which when one used a very and high volume concentrated airstream at the moment the body octave opened certainly helped it's playability. But asking a player to play this way just for the "break" is way too much.

But play testing takes alot into account including the player, mouthpiece / reed, neck, design characteristics, and setup. I always now try to keep all that in mind any time I play test any instrument.

And now my main tenor is back to a Couf, where I started.

YMMV
 
A hard to find problem dissected...

I had a problem with my bass clarinet (which has been widely praised as one of the better horns to have some down the pike by those who should know) that puzzled me (and repair dudes) for about fifteen years. My cross fingered B below the staff was (for the want of a better term) "muffled". The same problem was present, of course, with the cross fingered F natural at the top of the staff.

In my travels through the world, I sought out every woodwind repair "expert" that I could find and had them take a look at the thing. They would leak test the horn, visually inspect the pad and tone hole, and then throw up their hands and say that sometimes this sort of thing happens with wooden horns and other mumbo-jumbo.

Then, I took the thing with me on a business trip up to Dallas, and brought it before a guy recommended to me by Nunnaker of the Houston Symphony, former bass clarinetist of that august (actually, more like February) organization.

This repairman, a bassoonist with a local orchestra, did all of the standard testing with which I had become familiar over the years. But, instead of just visually examining the tone hole pad associated with the venting of this note, he went to considerable trouble to disassemble the keys on that axle, this to visually inspect the pad and tone hole.

It was at that point that an extremely "clean" cut through the pad (unnoticeable when viewed upside down and in tight confinement, as it would be when mounted on the horn) was carried far enough around the seat of the tone hole that it allowed the leather "flap" to be sucked free of the pad's padding and partially cover the hole as the airstream exited the venting hole for those notes. The pad is/was located in a congested area of the horn, and it was impossible to see this problem when the horn was in use. And, the cut was so clean that it seated back in place perfectly without any damage being visible when viewed in the low clearance, upside down position.

(Once diagnosed, this was fixed with little trouble, and I again had my forked B natural/F# in hand. (Oddly enough, it never seemed to affect the notes in the altissimo. And, neither I nor anyone else has ever managed to come up with a process whereby the pad could have been cut by the tone hole; it's not exposed to any sharp blows when a horn could have been dropped (not that it has ever happened, but still) or why the joint was secured in the case.)

In retrospect, the obvious solution to the problem would have been revealed had the pad only been removed from the instrument. But, the "standard" approach was taken (visual inspection on the horn, leak testing, etc., and the more complicated (and time consuming) removal of the key was avoided - until I visited Dallas that fine summer day.

The tone hole in question did have a particularly "sharp" appearing edge when removed. It was almost as perfect of an edge as on some of my woodworking tools, even though it's made of wood.

Perhaps the fly cutter used in the Selmer factory that day had just been returned from the "Sharpen 'em up" guy, an itinerant saw and scissor sharpener...

In any event, the problem did have the happy result of developing my facility with the "•|•••|••o with the sliver key" fingering to the point where I could handle just about any situation without a blip.
 
This repairman, a bassoonist with a local orchestra, did all of the standard testing with which I had become familiar over the years. But, instead of just visually examining the tone hole pad associated with the venting of this note, he went to considerable trouble to disassemble the keys on that axle, this to visually inspect the pad and tone hole.
Reminds me (very much) of the trouble we had with our heating (this is your average city apartment). In winter, whilst under load, the radiators would start humming, singing, whatever, and normally you'd just twist the thermostat a bit in order to disrupt the chant. Sure enough, after a while the darn thing would start wailing again. Their usual response was "that an old heating, past its prime. We suggested to have it completely replaced but the landlord considered it too expensive."

Countless times the owner's contractor plumber would come and tweak something on the boiler in the basement. Countless times the heating would promptly respond with a new melody. Sending us out of bed several times a night in order to fiddle with each thermostat.

One day I had enough. I rang up the Danfoss rep and asked to speak to an engineer whom I asked under what circumstances the heating would start to hum/sing/whatever. The answer was simple (but it took him about 10 minutes to explain it to me) - there are different types for thermostat valves - some are to be used on the inlet of the radiators, some at the outlet, others support water pump systems, others work only on convection-only systems - in a nutshell: take the wrong type of valve, and it hums.

Next day I rang up the landlord, thusly educated him and asked him to urge the plumber to inspect the valves. Some days later an elderly engineer (probably the most seasoned they had) actually knelt down before the thermostat - first time ever since we had that problem - in order to determine it's type. "Hey, that's the wrong type for that kind of heating," he exclaimed. "the hum must have driven you crazy!".

(needless to say - since they changed the valves, no more noise. But the plumbing contractors probably hate me now, me having stolen a steady source of income from them - they did that since well before my time in that house).

Moral of the story - sometimes one must indeed get his hands dirty. And most effects have a cause.
 
Oh. I like the boldness of this one:

This item is a professional alto saxophone has the smiliar Selmer 54 series key configuration ...

Yah. There's also the pic of the horn (attached). Note that you can't see the engraving.

If you go through the ad really fast and haven't seen a Selmer Reference 54 recently ....
 
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