Grenadilla wood

Steve

Clarinet CE/Moderator
Staff member
CE/Moderator
just in case people haven't seen unstained grenadilla wood. Thought i'd take a pic and post it. here is a block long enough to make a FB lower joint or a bunch of barrels. to protect the wood it is layered in wax so that's the irregularities that you see on the surface.
 
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It's funny that when a clarinet comes up on ebay that's unstained Grenadilla the seller automatically assumes that it's Rosewood.
The same goes for stained grenadilla. Then it's Ebony.

That is a very nice example of grenadilla though.
 
Grenadilla is supposed to be rare and dying out

As I understand it, that is only sort of true. In biological terms, it isn't rare OR dying out; it's only the large, straight specimens (those best suited to instrument-making) that are being overharvested. This presumably could lead to some genetic bottlenecking, resulting in even fewer large, straight trees in the future.

So we may have to learn to play curvy clarinets.
 
the pieces above is 2inch x 2" x 12 inches. I probably paid about $18 for it on sale. normal price is around $40

Actually I buy my stuff at a local woodworking store(s)

you can get grenadilla, rosewood, tulipwood, etc for normally $15 - $65 dependent upon which wood and size

They generally have much more in the store than online, but here's an example of tulipwood of 1.5" x 1.5" x 20inch for $16.99
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=706

one of these days i'm going to start making barrels and bells to experiment
 
So we may have to learn to play curvy clarinets.

Uh, some of us already do. Mind you, the curves these days are made of metal, but there you go.

(The first "real" bass clarinet was deemed to be a serpentine specimen carved into two blocks of wood then glued together. In the days before axle keywork, many of the holes on the "lower joint" were covered either by bassoon-style "clapper" keywork, or by portions of the player's right palm and intermediate finger joints. Photos of this instrument are pretty prevalent in all of the serious historical works on the instrument (i.e., don't look in David Pino's book for one), and the thing looks like a platter of very thick, black spaghetti. But, it allegedly worked, and was used by no less a musical organization than the band of the French Imperial Guard.)

Working with grenadilla (and the other extremely dense, resinous woods) is more akin to machining than it is to woodworking. The normal, "Norm's 'The New Yankee Workshop'" technique of notching things on a lathe with rough pencil marks and going at it with a gouge might work for the exterior, but getting the bore right (down to a thousandth or less tolerances) employs methods more suited to the machine shop.

My dad (with his back garage complete with wood and metal lathes, milling machine and other such stuff) could have done it, had he had access to the wood. (The issue came up when I postulated a straight wooden bell for my low C bass clarinet.) He did a little digging around back in the 1970's, but could only find very small pieces of the appropriate wood, nothing so large as a oboe's upper joint.

Regarding color, my bass has a "two tone" body, with the upper joint a black as the Earl Of Hell's boots, while the lower joint is more a very deep brown in color. light enough to show the graining to good advantage. I noticed that when I bought the thing back in 1971, but of the five on offer, it was the best playing one of the batch, so there you go.
 
I heard Buffet started making their Greenline to take advantage of all the wood shavings that they create. think of all the wood particles from that block as it is cut down. You can easily make another clarinet or two from all the wood shavings.

I wonder if they then mold it into a block and run it through the same process. Or mold it closer to the end product ??
 
Buffets description

Body of 95% granulated Grenadilla wood and 5% polycarbonate fibre and epoxy resin. : Clarinet can withstand extreme temperature changes and will not crack.

Aware of the importance of conserving the world supply of precious wood, such as ebony, BUFFET CRAMPON created in 1994 a modern and innovative material called Green Line.

Green Line is the result of blending 95% of ebony powder with carbon fiber in a process patented by BUFFET CRAMPON. It has the same acoustic qualities as ebony and is suited to the high demands of today's musicians because of its stability in all playing environments.

The addition of carbon fibres means that Green Line clarinets are not susceptible to variations in atmospheric conditions (changes in temperature and humidity), the risk of cracking is therefore eliminated.

All the features of Buffet Crampon Prestige clarinets are to be found in the Green Line range.
 
to see how they are made
go to
http://www.selmer.fr/

then manufacturing
then clarinets
click on the clarinet (or skip intro)
then each picture icon and below it the (+) verbage area


Selmer, on those pages, lists that they use Ebony and Rosewood
 
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Steve,
Out of curiosity, have you had any Rosewood or Ebony clarinets come through your shop?
I was wondering how they felt and played in comparison to Grenadilla.
 
Steve,
Out of curiosity, have you had any Rosewood or Ebony clarinets come through your shop?
I was wondering how they felt and played in comparison to Grenadilla.

truthfully I haven't really paid attention

if the modern selmers are ebony & rosewood then yes

then that brings up interesting questions. but being different designs et all doing direct comparisons of them are kinda a mute point.

maybe i should start chopping some of that wood up and making identical barrels (or close clones). but i know quality of bore finishing definitely makes a difference in several qualities

i just noticed this morning that my 1950s Buffet is stained black UJ, bell & barrel; and unstained LJ. haven't overhauled it yet but was playing it this morning and noticed.

I really want to get into fiddling with barrels and may have some mroe time on my hands fairly soon. might make some interesting experiments.
 
I haven't really perused all the shelves of wood at the local turning store .. but there are interesting alternatives.


here's prices and pics of Ebony - Blackwood (from my favorite store)
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=683



funny, the description for Ebony - Massacar specifically mentioned musical instruments
Ebony, Macassar
(Diospyros celebica) Dark brown to black heartwood with contrasting bands of yellow to golden brown. Very hard, dense, and heavy, it can be very brittle at its heart. Used for high-end cabinetry, inlay work, musical instruments, or decorative applications.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5167&cs=683&pcs=fam




east - india Rosewood - kinda looks like grenadilla
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=20062&wcs=5167&pcs=fam
and the other Rosewoods
http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=1080




of course Cocobolo which alot of barrel makers like to use lately
Cocobolo

Hard and heavy wood with irregular grain with a medium fine texture. Heartwood is a variegated color from purple red to yellow, with black markings.
Dalbergia species
Color turns deep orange red with exposure
From West Coast Central America
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=682




African Blackwood
African Blackwood
(Dalbergia melanoxylon) Purplish black to dark brown with black streaks. Firm, heavy wood with exceptionally good working qualities. Cuts very smoothly and evenly, taking an excellent finish directly from the tool. Chief uses are musical instruments, ornamental inlays and turned objects such as chess pieces or pool cues. Rough sawn ±1/16".
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5125




Tulipwood is cheap
Tulipwood
(Dalbergia frutescens) Hard dense wood with a pinkish to yellowish heartwood with pronounced stripes of violet, salmon, and rose. Grain is interlocked and irregular with a medium to fine texture and a pleasantly mild fragrance when cut. Brazil.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=706
 
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As many of you may know, I'm a clarinet repair specialist. This is a good thing as it puts in my hands many professional, intermediate and beginner instruments. So it allows my to make some studies from time to time.

A couple years ago I had the idea of starting to make clarinet barrels. That was a novel idea since I like tinkering so much. I'm also the enginering mentality as I try to determine specifications related to specific output parameters ... or in this case tonal quality.

In the past year I've learned about the different types of woods.
I've also studied and experimented in clarinet acoustics (including making an artificial pressure machine to act as a player) and also more specific, clarinet barrels including Moennig, chadash and Buffet Moennig barrels. Plus a variety of other barrels.

This involved some in-depth study of clarinet mpc design. This added to my mpc refacing skills that I already have learned much about over the past 5+ years. Here's some basic summary information that shows the variance among some basic mpc measurements.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clmpcdesign.htm
I have much more detail that is shown there including the baffle curve every 2-5mm. and width, dimensions, etc.

That expanded my research into the basic clarinet body itself.
taking a upper joint. filling and covering holes and relocating them. making them wider and shallower (to maintain the same volume) and vice versa, thinner and taller. Tonehole by tonehole and noting the tonal variance and response variance.

But alot also is dependent upon the bore design itself. Finding out clarinets not only have the reverse conical bore like a Buffet R13, and the known cylindrical bores like Selmer CTs or Leblanc LLs but finding a surprise in the conical bored Leblancs. Yes, it's smaller at the top of the joint than at the bottom of the joint.

each tonehole is designed a certain way to maintain a certain air pressure response making the clarinet itself "even" in the way it plays and sounds.

But another interesting experiment in dealing with a Honduras Rosewood barrel. I made a fat body Rosewood barrel with a Chadash spec'd bore for my R13. It sounded pretty good. I then thinned the body a bit smaller than a regular barrel. I figured nothing of it. But to my surprise it sounded badly. Tried it on another clarinet and it still sounded bad. Another mpc, bad. But to my surprise that thickness of a particular wood also has effects on the tonal quality.

In my many books (or sections of books) about clarinet acoustics I have found reference on the thickness also has impact on tonal quality. Quite some interesting reading.

But various woods are completely different in effects based on thickness. Such as MPingo which is a very dense wood seems to have minimal effect on tonal quality versus rosewood.

Another item learned from all these woods is that I am starting to see what woods my clarinets are made of.

There African Blackwood aka M'Pingo aka Grenadilla (the trade name)
not to be confused with Grenadillo
and then there is
Cocobolo
Ebony - Gabon, striped and Macassar
and Mopani

My 1950 Buffet seems clearly to be made of Gabon and striped Ebony
Whereas my 1955 Buffet R13 is made from MPingo

In general, from what I can tell. many bells that have reddish color to them may be Ebony.

keep in mind, you are not seeing the natural colors but a stained/tinted wood. here's a list of woods
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/wood.htm

Alas, I am working on a summary "high level overview" of things I have learned and am putting them here
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clacoustics.htm

When I finish, I'll be posting some items on this forum and chatting about specific items.
 
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