I have 4 different makes of clarinets and using the same mouthpiece and same reed I find a significant difference in the required blowing pressure for the same volume note on each. All the pads have been checked for leeks and it interesting (and annoying ) why some are harder to blow than others. One is a partial plateau clarinet but in top condition. Could it be that each requires its own mouthpiece and barrel combination. I suspect this but from below the barrel to the bell they seem much the same.
Hard Blowing Enigma
- Thread starter Respigie
- Start date
I think much of the perceived difference in resistance comes from how the air column is backfiring in the bore and maybe the barrel. I too experience that the same mpc/reed combo on different instruments behaves differently, and it's not a leak issue - it seems to be simply that not all the holes are made the same way (same undercut, venting, whatever). Maybe that's why some people prefer brand X over Y - just because of such issues.Respigie said:
I found out that the most simple method is to play with reed strengths - half a size can make a world of a difference.
Difference between the same brand and model of clarinet should be small, except for some type of design change or setup.
In my mouhtpiece review
http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1183
you will see how one mouthpiece my not necessarily react and play the same way on different clarinets. I use a small bore - 1955 R13, a medium bore Leblanc LL and a large bore Selmer CT.
But what's the difference between a large bore Selmer CT (or even my 1930s Selmer) and a large bore Leblanc Dynamic/Pete Fountaine model ? or even a Selmer 55. I could caliper the snot of of them for some mathematical models .... but i'll leave that to someone that has the time.
For instance, the Selmer 55 has this large air block in the top of the instrument. It's called the register vent/nut
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/SelmerParis/55/02.jpg
it creates a dam to the air flow and thus more resistance.
My Selmer CT versus a Leblanc Dynamic that I just overhauled is quite significant - depending upon mouthpiece. The Leblanc has much smaller tone holes in comparison to the Selmer, and the Selmer much more freeblowing and reacts differently to different mouthpieces. The Dynamic is a great instrument with a Vandoren 5JB, whether you are using it for jazz or not. Other large tip mpcs I was testing had much more resistance. Go figure.
I had issues initially playing selmer clarinets. The right hand lowest tone hole is so wide my finger has problems keeping it covered whilst I reach for the lower spatula keys.
But pad height to the toneholes also affects resistance. So does a plateau clarinet as pressure is more built up on those due to the toneholes being all covered. Though a properly set up one will wail pretty good.
have your ever just played long tones and felt the air hitting your fingertips ?
sometimes softing reed strength can affect intonation and tone. and for some players that is not the answer. You are venturing into the arena of why some players prefer certain instruments and certain mouthpieces and certain reeds. Some prefer a certain level of resistance, some don't. Some play in orchestras, band, jazz bands and they usually all prefer different setups depending upon alot of other variables and perceptions.
In my mouhtpiece review
http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1183
you will see how one mouthpiece my not necessarily react and play the same way on different clarinets. I use a small bore - 1955 R13, a medium bore Leblanc LL and a large bore Selmer CT.
But what's the difference between a large bore Selmer CT (or even my 1930s Selmer) and a large bore Leblanc Dynamic/Pete Fountaine model ? or even a Selmer 55. I could caliper the snot of of them for some mathematical models .... but i'll leave that to someone that has the time.
For instance, the Selmer 55 has this large air block in the top of the instrument. It's called the register vent/nut
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/SelmerParis/55/02.jpg
it creates a dam to the air flow and thus more resistance.
My Selmer CT versus a Leblanc Dynamic that I just overhauled is quite significant - depending upon mouthpiece. The Leblanc has much smaller tone holes in comparison to the Selmer, and the Selmer much more freeblowing and reacts differently to different mouthpieces. The Dynamic is a great instrument with a Vandoren 5JB, whether you are using it for jazz or not. Other large tip mpcs I was testing had much more resistance. Go figure.
I had issues initially playing selmer clarinets. The right hand lowest tone hole is so wide my finger has problems keeping it covered whilst I reach for the lower spatula keys.
But pad height to the toneholes also affects resistance. So does a plateau clarinet as pressure is more built up on those due to the toneholes being all covered. Though a properly set up one will wail pretty good.
have your ever just played long tones and felt the air hitting your fingertips ?
sometimes softing reed strength can affect intonation and tone. and for some players that is not the answer. You are venturing into the arena of why some players prefer certain instruments and certain mouthpieces and certain reeds. Some prefer a certain level of resistance, some don't. Some play in orchestras, band, jazz bands and they usually all prefer different setups depending upon alot of other variables and perceptions.
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Welcome to the forum, Respigie! I enjoyed your cousin's masterpiece, The Pines of Rome. Shouldn't you be a brass player, though?
I'll just say that Steve's comments essentially echo my own feelings: while some mouthpieces do work great on any horn (or so it seems), some just don't play well with certain makes and models -- and the mouthpiece is equally as important as the horn you buy: you can either get a mouthpiece that's suited for your style of playing and struggle to make it work "right" for any horn (which is possible to do), a mouthpiece that works "right" for the horn you have or one that is a happy medium between both. This last thing is hard to do. However, I feel I've found my "silver bullet" and that's my Selmer C85/120.
The reed does make a difference, but my opinion is that the strength of the reed is more the difference-maker, not exactly the brand, per se: I've found that Vandoren reeds, for instance, feel about 1/2 strength harder than, say, a Rico. That makes a significant difference.
Ligatures DO make a difference, but remember that ligatures used to be just a bit of string wrapped around the mouthpiece and reed. My strong opinion is that as long as the ligature isn't damaged, there's no real need to replace it.
I'll just say that Steve's comments essentially echo my own feelings: while some mouthpieces do work great on any horn (or so it seems), some just don't play well with certain makes and models -- and the mouthpiece is equally as important as the horn you buy: you can either get a mouthpiece that's suited for your style of playing and struggle to make it work "right" for any horn (which is possible to do), a mouthpiece that works "right" for the horn you have or one that is a happy medium between both. This last thing is hard to do. However, I feel I've found my "silver bullet" and that's my Selmer C85/120.
The reed does make a difference, but my opinion is that the strength of the reed is more the difference-maker, not exactly the brand, per se: I've found that Vandoren reeds, for instance, feel about 1/2 strength harder than, say, a Rico. That makes a significant difference.
Ligatures DO make a difference, but remember that ligatures used to be just a bit of string wrapped around the mouthpiece and reed. My strong opinion is that as long as the ligature isn't damaged, there's no real need to replace it.
Shhhh! I don`t want to wake cous. up. With apologies to him I play cello, violin and the three saxes and about 1/2 a clarinet. I did buy a trumpet 3 months back and blew like mad for 2 weeks and then spent another 2 weeks waiting for my lips to heal. I traded the trump in on another clarinet. I`ve done a bit of swapping and trying of the MPCs and it certainly confirms what you have all contributed that MPCs and all barrels don`t match. I`ve been using the Hite piece as it has been such an easy one to blow but on the plateau clarinet I`m puffing after half dozen bars, but the Bundy one which is terrible on the other clarinets is the best on the plateau.
being a brass player (for a couple months) then you recognize the importance and variance between certain design characteristics in brass mouthpieces =-). Such as with the depth of the cup; rim shape; throat; and backbore. Here's is Selmers summary on all that:
In choosing a special combination of rim, cup, throat, and
backbore designs, consider the effects of the following:
Rim shape
Wide: Increases endurance
Narrow: Improves flexibility, range
Round: Improves comfort
Sharp: Increases brilliance, precision of attack
Cup size
Large: Increases volume, control
Small: Relieves fatigue, weakness
Cup depth
Deep: Darkens tone, especially in low register
Shallow: Brightens tone, improves response, especially in high register
THROAT
Large: Increases blowing freedom, volume, tone; sharpens high register (largest sizes also sharpen low register)
Small: Increases resistance, endurance, brilliance;flattens high register
BACKBORE
Except in general terms, identifying backbores by size isnt possible, because they also vary in shape. Various combinations of size and shape darken or brighten the tone, raise or lower the pitch in one or more registers, increase or decrease volume. In each instance the effect depends in part on the throat and cup used with the backbore.
So in that essense woodwind mouthpieces are no different. They are designed for certain characteristics and not all mouthpeices fit well with the players and not all fit well with the instruments.
well, at least your cousin may recognize the differences
In choosing a special combination of rim, cup, throat, and
backbore designs, consider the effects of the following:
Rim shape
Wide: Increases endurance
Narrow: Improves flexibility, range
Round: Improves comfort
Sharp: Increases brilliance, precision of attack
Cup size
Large: Increases volume, control
Small: Relieves fatigue, weakness
Cup depth
Deep: Darkens tone, especially in low register
Shallow: Brightens tone, improves response, especially in high register
THROAT
Large: Increases blowing freedom, volume, tone; sharpens high register (largest sizes also sharpen low register)
Small: Increases resistance, endurance, brilliance;flattens high register
BACKBORE
Except in general terms, identifying backbores by size isnt possible, because they also vary in shape. Various combinations of size and shape darken or brighten the tone, raise or lower the pitch in one or more registers, increase or decrease volume. In each instance the effect depends in part on the throat and cup used with the backbore.
So in that essense woodwind mouthpieces are no different. They are designed for certain characteristics and not all mouthpeices fit well with the players and not all fit well with the instruments.
well, at least your cousin may recognize the differences
maybe we should put this in perspective of a string player
the quality of hair on the bow (and how it was installed)
the design, construction of a bow
the design and quality of the bridge & soundpost
the quality of the strings
the design and quality of the neck and fingerboard
of course the BODY itself, et all the rest of it
any one of those pieces may not be to the liking of the player, and they may choose slightly different designs, materials etc.
It's the same with other instruments, just with different pieces
the quality of hair on the bow (and how it was installed)
the design, construction of a bow
the design and quality of the bridge & soundpost
the quality of the strings
the design and quality of the neck and fingerboard
of course the BODY itself, et all the rest of it
any one of those pieces may not be to the liking of the player, and they may choose slightly different designs, materials etc.
It's the same with other instruments, just with different pieces
how's this for a further analysis / comparison for a string player
The bow is the mouthpiece
the strings are the reed
and your bowing technique is the embouchure
I used to be a really good cellist - now one sits idle in my basement. I also used to be a really good french horn player too, but i sold it (years ago) and recently replaced it with a cornet which i'm not quite as good at.
The bow is the mouthpiece
the strings are the reed
and your bowing technique is the embouchure
I used to be a really good cellist - now one sits idle in my basement. I also used to be a really good french horn player too, but i sold it (years ago) and recently replaced it with a cornet which i'm not quite as good at.