Home made bass clarinet stand

Mojo

Mojo

I made this about 30 years ago from an old music stand and an aluminum floor trim piece from a door way. Some felt, pop rivets, bolts, wing nuts and a piece of copper to extend one leg for better stability. Lightweight, stable and inexpensive. Fits low C and low Eb (but not with a peg extending).

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Gandalfe said:
I remember when bass clarinet stands were easily over $100 for a decent one, so I think you saved yourself a chunk of change. Hercules now offers a really nice one for around $50. Kudos to you for finding a neat solution.
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Like you said, there were no inexpensive options when I made this.
 
Hey uh, I know these note stands you've based your work on, and I have to say the least gust of wind knocks them over. How do you prevent that from happening with a huge horn that weighs 2 kilograms?
 
The stand undoubtedly works - when the instrument is properly (and more critically, carefully) placed into the holding mechanism. However, any disturbance (like when an actress breezes through an orchestra pit, more intent on making her entrance onto the musical theatre stage than on anyone's property that she might touch during the passage), will tip the horn off of the device, or (more likely) bring the whole thing down.

I'm not a fan of the heavy weight bass stands that employ the "lean" method, but getting a stable "clamp" type stand that holds the bell securely is almost impossible these days (and prevents the "permanent" set of the peg on a standard bass - you have to manually extend the peg after taking the horn from the clamp). So, the peg extended horn needs to be place in a stand that not only supports it in place, but also is resistant to being tipped.

It doesn't have to be a careless actress (the one in the personal experience of mine was the co-star of the television show MacMillan And Wife, and her reaction to the (literally) collapsed Mark VI tenor on the floor was (again, literally) "H'mpf", before walking away without another word); it could be the flute player in the next row, who tosses her head too energetically during a flute passage, and hooks the horn with her raven tresses (again, I've seen this happen, in this case with a bass clarinet leaned against a similar "lightweight" stand).

My bass currently lists out at replacement cost in the $6,000 to $8,000 range. No way in hell I'd place it in anything that takes less than 20 kilos of force to overturn. A heavyweight stand may be hard to transport, but the reason for that is that the stand in question is hard to overturn, the reason for having it in the first place.
 
Peaceless said:
Hey uh, I know these note stands you've based your work on, and I have to say the least gust of wind knocks them over. How do you prevent that from happening with a huge horn that weighs 2 kilograms?
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The weight of the bass clarinet actually stabilizes the stand. The leg under the bell is longer than the other two legs to center the weight better between the three legs. The center of gravity of the BC is lower than a folder of music. It is not top heavy nor does it have a wind catcher up top.

If the $50 Hercules stand was available when I made this, I probably would have bought it instead. My options at the time were like $150 which seemed quite expensive to me in the 1980's. The person I sit next to has a Hercules stand. But she was bemoaning that it does not grip the bell or body and her BC just flops in it and is spun around from a playing orientation. With my low C bass BC, I do not need to pull up the peg as it only sticks out a little past the bell.
 
Actually, I feel the same about the Hercules stands, with the possible exception of their "in the bell" soprano clarinet stands, which (with some minimal modifications) are the most stable of their type. I've bought Hercules stands as an emergency accommodation for an all-standing gig, and in each case have been dissatisfied with the stability when it came to the larger horns. An alto or tenor, no problem. But, a bass clarinet (with the long, heavy body of the breed), a bassoon, or a baritone sax - no way buster.

Bass clarinets, like bassoons and baritone saxes (and others of the brass and string families) are not easily housed in a stand. Long instruments with a relatively high center of gravity cannot be safely contained in an easily portable piece of equipment.

Like I said up top, I've been witness to a stand upset that turned a (current value) $5,000 Selmer Mark VI tenor sax into a wall ornament (the horn, literally, collapsed into a pancake when it fell onto a concrete stage apron, all after being tipped off of a traditional, folding tenor sax stand - the impact didn't do the flute on the same stand much good either). After seeing that, I immediately abandoned lightweight and went to secure.

You can go years without such an event happening to your horns. However, one time with an instrument costing a third as much as a current automobile, and your opinion on the topic will change dramatically.

Oh, and while we're on the topic of instrument stands, I am one of the most vocal critics of the rolling baritone stand produced by one of the stand manufacturers - Hamilton, I think. Quite aside from the issues with the minimalist castors employed, "wheels" that get hung up on any obstruction (like a light cord snaking its way across an orchestra pit), the stand itself is destructive of the object that it carries.

Aside from the cosmetic damage that it causes to the horn's bell, the attachment point for the collar that attaches to the stand's upright component, the loading that the stand imposes on the bell of the instrument distorts the design of the horn itself. The loading isn't always present, but when you combine the static loading with the dynamic loading of the movements of the stand and any impacts transmitted through the castors, you are putting much more loading on the long rods and key work than it accounted for the in the design.

Normally (i.e., when being played), the instrument is suspended from the rear of the long tube of the body of the horn. The bell, under the design of the instrument, is supported by the long tube, with an attachment point at the bottom of the horn and a system of bracing as the bell ascends to the bell's opening.

When on the stand, this is all reversed. The bracket wrapped around the bell is now the attachment point. Every jarring of the instrument by the stand is transferred not directly to the rigid rear tube and its attachment point, but first to the bell, then to the key work attached to that bell (including all of those heavy rods that transmit the force to the big bell keys), before arriving to the intended suspension point (the rear tube and neck strap attachment point).

There are variations on the rolling stand that attach the suspension point not to the bell, but rather (through a hook/clip) to the neck strap suspension point. Those remove the dynamic loading on the bell, but they also make for a much less stable stand setup when rolling the instrument around, as the horn "swings" from side to side when using such a stand. Not a good thing.

Push comes to shove, those of us tasked (formerly, in my case, I am sorry to say) with playing bass clarinet, baritone sax, tuba, bass trombone, and (God forbid) kettledrums, xylophones, bass saxophone and double bass, have a greater load imposed upon us, something that other players can only imagine. Marching with some of these instruments is a pain (I saw a high school band marching through The Magic Kingdom at WDW last week, with two low A baritones being played out front along with a Bundy bass clarinet - not marching instruments by any stretch of the imagination), but youngsters can handle this sort of load. Old people, not so much.

I've always wondered what goes through the minds of trumpet players and flautists as they throw all of their stuff into a case in ten seconds and depart the scene of a performance while others have to pick up ten to twenty times the amount of equipment (and weight) before they can go home. To their eternal credit, the union has always recognized this, with the the doubling percentages in the contract.

The only time that I've felt good about this is when I've been packing up my seventy or eighty pounds of horns and stands and cases on my Rock 'n' Roller cart, all the while watching a harp player try to get others to move her dinosaur (and associated furniture) out to the car for her (said car invariably being a compact with no easy way of loading the crate and stool into same). Many's the time that I have put up all of my stuff first before returning to help the poor harp player, who is usually ignored by the other members of the orchestra (light instrument folks tossing the instruments in the cases and running, heavy instrument types preoccupied with moving their own burdens). This had the added benefit of making her grateful for my help, ensuring that I could draw on her for a job as a favor sometime down the road. I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine, as it were.

"Never play anything you can't carry yourself" is a good operative maxim when dealing with instrumental music. Perhaps there should be some sort of corollary for holding instruments on stands...
 
Perhaps the good folks at Saxrax could be persuaded to make a bass clarinet stand. I do love their sax stands, although the baritone stand would be a bit of a monster to get in the pit. This Hercules stand works well for me at home, but also would not be practical in the pit.

http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-DS56...&sr=8-3&keywords=hercules+bass+clarinet+stand

Regarding "never play anything you can't carry" - years ago I was in an R'n'B band with a guy with a Hammond B3 and the full size Leslie amp. Of course he had a bad back, so it was up to the horn section to roll that stuff off the truck, lift it up to the stage, and then reverse the process at the end of the night. We actually had 2x6 boards that clamped on the the B3, and four guys would carry it like an Egyptian Pharoah in and out of the clubs. What a great sound that thing had, but we sure dreaded the end of the night. We were all pretty happy when he left the band and his replacement had a Roland D-50 and a standard keyboard amp.
 
There seems to be a reluctance on the part of saxophone stand makers to recognize that there are others out there who play both baritone and clarinet, or baritone and bass clarinet, or bassoon and anything else. I have always marveled at the lack of a baritone/soprano clarinet case option, even though in the good old days the baritone player was usually the one tasked with the clarinet lead in stuff like Sing, Sing, Sing, Parts 1 and 2. It's not the end of the world to put a socket for a standard clarinet peg on a baritone stand, yet they usually are not so provided.

I have treasured my Anderson bass clarinet/saxophone stands for many years, as being one of the few exceptions to this apparent rule. My boy will get the use of them from here on out, and he will be able to puzzle folks on the West Coast as to where they came from (Northern Indiana) and where you can get one (nowhere, unless you get lucky on eBay).

Elsewhere on here (Pete, show the good people where), I have written a how to on how to make a bulletproof baritone/bass clarinet/standard sax/clarinet/flute/english horn/bassoon stand. My father came up with the design, and when it's all assembled, you have never-tip stand arrangement for all of your horns. It takes minimal woodworking skills (although I had oak lumber custom milled for my current one - the original was made of black painted 2 x 4 studs) plus maybe twenty bucks worth of welding at a welding shop), but the end result was well worth the effort.
 
"You can go years without such an event happening to your horns. However, one time with an instrument costing a third as much as a current automobile, and your opinion on the topic will change dramatically."

I think this is true. It's like backing up your hard drive. You take more extreme action after a loss. You need to find the right balance between risk and the annoyance/cost of prevention.
 
In my case, it was fortunate that the loss occurred to a friend's horn, rather than to one in my collection. It went from a magnificent example of the Selmer Mark VI breed to a golden heap of metal in a couple of second - sort of like a slow-motion film of a car wreck.

And, his was a "low to the ground" metal instrument, whereas my exquisite Selmer extended range bass extended about a foot higher above the ground, with a much higher center of gravity. (My instrument rested on a stand with a smaller footprint, one that I routinely pinned to the ground with my right foot for additional stability; the baritone was on a traditional stand with a wider footprint.)

You have no idea of the intensity of the wave of horror that passed over me when I considered the consequences had the actress done the same with my instrument (I was seated in the row behind Dave, my tenor playing friend, and on the day that the incident occurred, she also breezed by my instrument with the barest of clearance distance between her fluttering costume and my horn). Had the seating arrangements been different, it would have been my loss, rather than that of my friend Dave.

What was worse was that Dave had quite the fight with the theater to get his complete and utter loss (the instrument was literally only good for a wall hanging once it had been prized up from the floor) replaced. From what I heard, the woman ignored every inquiry, and only after an attorney was involved from Dave's perspective did the theater (or should that be "theatre"?) cough up the money.

The new horn was never as good as the old one, to hear Dave tell it. The flute survived the trip almost intact, and the damaged horn (jammed neck and still installed mouthpiece, reed and cap) made a pretty awesome ornament once it was all over. (The insurance company let it go without any return - a decent action on their part.) And, I (for one) could never bring myself to watch MacMillan and Wife​, so queasy did the sight of her make me.

I drive by Dave's house all of the time when returning to the old neighborhood up in Saint Louis. Haven't seen or heard of him in over forty years, though - have no idea if he's still playing or not. He wasn't in the local's directory last time that I checked, and none of my friends up there have heard of him either. Great tenor player, couldn't play the alto or baritone worth spit, moderately skilled on the flute, and a horrible clarinet user...
 
I hate to get all preaching and all, but...

...this is just another version of the suspended by peg and neck stand, only with a tripod base rather than a heavily weighted one.

Nothing wrong with the stability of the basic setup, as long as (and emphasis added here) there's absolutely no chance of the legs getting tripped upon by passing flautists and oboists (or, as was my experience, by Hollywood type thespians). That's the main objection to all of these stands, and if you operate in a safe environment, this stand will serve just fine.

We in the woodwinds generally get shoved into the nooks and crannies of the orchestra/band. The trombones need space for their slide, the percussionists need to move around and shake things, the string folks have those stupid bows that they flail about all over the place (and don't get me started on those 'cellists with their boxes between their legs), the keyboard players...well, I don't have an answer there - I guess they just merit the extra space they are granted). All of this, combined with the clutter on the floor in many musical situations (remind me to share my instructions for how to wire up bandstand or pit wiring some time), and the need to access all portions of the setup between acts/sets, makes for a lot of klutsy feet shuffling about, all within inches of your precious instrument on its towering stand.

And, truth be told, this kind of hazard is something all horns are exposed to. Even a sax or a trumpet or a trombone can get nailed, and very likely you have witnessed such an event yourself. If you are lucky, you will be able to catch the horn before it takes a tumble.

However, unlike a saxophone, the bass clarinet stand bears the weight of the horn far, far, far higher off of the floor. Also (and I speak from experience here, boys and girls), a saxophone or other brass instrument is capable of surviving serious damage and coming back as good as it was before the event. A wooden bass clarinet (with all of that weight way up high, remember) taking a tumble over a three to four foot distance is not likely to come through with flying colors, and is much more likely to suffer permanent (rather than temporary) disarrangement.

(Now, with a $900 Selmer USA plastic horn, you may be willing to take the risk. With a $8,000 plus wooden horn, maybe not so much. Insurance may be nice, but first off you'll be replacing a very-likely hand selected horn with an off the rack replacement, minus the deductible. And, good luck convincing them that your spidery-based stand was an adequate safeguard for your many-thousand dollar investment.)

Once again, I refer to my "bullet proof" stand. Having a tipping force of well over twenty pounds at a right angle in any direction, it's not going anywhere, unless of course the high reeds are engaged in a football scrimmage in between movements or acts. It's a bit more trouble to transport, but once you have witnessed the sort of incidents that I have, you will gladly bear the burden.

(My stand is also much more flexible than most (even over the SaxRax), with the same base accommodating up to three or four saxes, up to five clarinets or flutes (or even oboes and english horns), and with spots for the obligatory bass clarinet and bassoon stands (with some sacrifices of the other spots). I even found room for an accessory box and a drink holder (although never for a reed pot for the bassoon reeds - it was too hard to reach in a hurry down at ground level).)

And, the base itself and the associated baritone stand only cost about $40.00 to fabricate. (The bass clarinet stand, bassoon stand and various pegs are extra, commercial items, items that you may already have.) Take that, SaxRax...

And, when I say stable, I mean stable. The rubber toilet seat grommets used under the base hold that sucker in place like a pipe vise, even on a slippery dance floor. (Remember dance wax? I do...) Even that heavyweight commercial stand can't make that claim, as it has a far smaller footprint (i.e., the non-skid holds only as long as it takes to tip the base slightly, after which it is Katy bar the door).

The fabrication is so simple that even a tenor player could do it. All of the basic parts are available at any hardware store. I originally used standard 2" x 4" (nominal) studs for the H-shaped base, although some ten years after I made the second one, I switched to custom cut and milled oak lumber (and even laid in three additional sets of cross-pieces, just in case).

Other than the wood, the bolts and other fittings can be found in the hardware aisle at any Home Depot or Lowe's (where, incidentally, we veterans get a 5% discount on everything). Some of the items are "unusual", to say the least, but they know what they are, and when purchased to the materials list, will work flawlessly.

The tools needed are an electric drill, standard bits (although Forstner bits will do a neater job in some areas), a circular saw (my first one was done with a contractor saw, the second with higher precision equipment - both were well-fitted, in any event, thanks to the chisel), and screwdrivers, a hammer and chisel (to finish the woodworking) and sandpaper. I painted my first two flat black, but yielded to orchestral pressures with my last version and went for clear stain that time around.

Now, if only our Pete could find the original posting, complete with extensive photo documentation...
 
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