Impulse buy - help!

[Crispin]

Hello,

I bought this clarinet on impulse, cheaply, at a local charity shop. My goal is to repair it and have a go at learning to play it. Question: is it a standard design? suitable for me to start with? I can't seem to match it with pictures I have viewed online, so wonder if it's maybe more of a vintage item? There is a name 'potter' but Im not getting to far with this. What opinions do others have on this instrument ? All responses would be welcome.

 

[pete]

It's an Albert System clarinet. There are companies that still make clarinets with that fingering system, but I think you could argue that Albert System is not a "standard design" anymore.

Brief Google comes up with George Potter & Company as a possible match. Here's a pic of the clarinet, which is also an Albert System horn. Of course, this is just going by searching "Potter" and "Clarinet," so your mileage may vary.

Recommendations:
* Take some better pics. If you can't see the details, we can't see the details. Your second pic is extremely blurry. (Go here for more info.)
* Take a picture of the stamp that says "Potter."
* Take some pics of that case. I saw a couple similar ones when I found Geo. Potter clarinets. Of course that'd just help dating the case and cases are sold separately.

 

[SOTSDO]

More than just an Albert, that's a very simple system horn. No lower joint crossovers (patent C# mechanism is not there), very little use of brille (rings). That, and the fact that both the horn and the case look to be in very, very good condition lead me to think that this is a modern product, rather than an ancient one.

Another consideration that needs attention here is high pitch versus low pitch. If it is an old horn, very likely it is high pitch.

The method to use to learn how to play one of these is the Lazarus method. Lazarus played Albert/simple horns to the day of his death, and the method has specific exercises to deal with the problems presented by this style of horn.

However, without a horn that deals with the little finger issues through either alternative keys for both little fingers, or a shortcut like the patent C#, you're asking for one hell of a workout.

 

[Crispin]

Thank you both for your helpful comments. Pete: That example is very close! I have now taken a picture of the makers mark (another potter, maybe related?) along with some better general pictures. SOTSDO: Hmm, it sounds like this is not the one to learn on, I'm thinking I should go with something standard? I'm not sure how you are defining 'ancient' in comparison to 'modern' but I would say this appears to have some age to it - I'm guessing early 20th century?

 

[Tony Fairbridge]

This is quite interesting. The mark is that of Henry Potter, son of William Henry Potter. He lived from 1810 to 1876, and his company continued until around 1950. He was known as a maker of flutes, bugles, trumpets and drums, but clarinets are not mentioned. This may be a very rare piece, but there is always the possibility that it is a later fake, as there was a lot of fakery around at that time and there are still modern fakes of old instruments coming mainly from India and Pakistan, complete with makers marks. The fact that the mark is that of a maker not known to make clarinets may support this. If this one is genuine, the very basic keywork would probably date it to the mis-1800's.

 

[pete]

http://www.henrypotter.co.uk/about.htm
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/henry_potter.htm

Told ya that pics help. FWIW, that case is one of the ones I saw that were from the 19th century. Please don't ask me to try to find it again, though. I tried and failed .

The address should be "36 & 38 Charing Cross," from what I read in Google. The pic you have, though, looks like it says "30." Hmmm.

I thought this was kewl. Check out who the quote is from:



Other comments:
* I couldn't tell you from the pics if it's an A, C, or Bb clarinet, because I have nothing to compare it to. An A clarinet, for instance, looks like a really big regular clarinet, kind of like how viola players look like they're really small people playing a regular size violin.
* If you look at that McGee Flutes link, you'll see "A=440hz." That's an intonation standard where concert A=440hz. It's also known as "low pitch" and is what we use today. However, this clarinet could be high pitch (A=457hz), French Standard (A=435hz, which is close enough to modern not to make too much difference), or something else. All that means is that if it's not A=440hz, the horn will not play in tune with modern instruments and can't be made to play in tune. Not that you necessarily would play it, anyhow.
* That mouthpiece might also be worth something, above and beyond the clarinet, itself.

I'd shoot off an e-mail to henrypotter.co.uk to see if they have any info for you.

 

[SOTSDO]

Better photos always make a difference. The blacks of the first photos have become the browns of the current, and the slop on the case now shows up clearly.

And, I'm thinking high pitch may be more likely.

You could learn to play this horn, but if you plan to keep up your talents and play with others, you'd do better to pick up a cheap Klose-Boehm horn.

 

[MrDibbs]

There's some information about a Hy Potter clarinet here but unfortunately the pictures have gone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-PARI...SERVE-LONDON-RETAILER-ORGNL-BOX-/320975795964

Does your's say "made in Paris" anywhere?

A few Potter flutes have 30 Charing Cross on them so I guess they moved at some point.

 

[wanabe]

Let me know if you need a couple more Albert system clarinets. I have a matched pair (A and Bb) in less than optimum condition, but certainly restorable. I was going to restore them, but don't really have the time. By the by, Woody Allen payed an Albert and did quite well with it. They are actually a little easier to play in keys with a lot of sharps in them, i.e. B or E.

 

[Crispin]

So I emailed henrypotter.co.uk and got a very helpful reply. He was surprised to see a clarinet attributed to themselves (The responder had worked in the flute shop and had not seen any remnants of clarinet making) but made the suggestion that it could have been brought in and stamped by themselves. He suggested that a number companies in Paris offered this service and This obviously ties in with MrDibbs post. The other point made was that 30 Charring Cross road would indicate that the item was produced before 1901. Thank you all for your responses.

 

[SOTSDO]

I agree on the orientation, Boehm horns for flat keys, Albert or Oehler horns for sharp keys. I've used my Oehler for a few musicals where the keys trended very sharp (hello, Hello Dolly! and Ms. Channing), and was very happy with the outcome.

The only thing that might give a person cause is the change from the forked to the non-forked fingering for the first fingers of each hand. If you don't use the alternate horn regularly enough, it's easy to "play Boehm" when you pick up the Albert/Oehler horn, or vice versa. Once again, regular practice is the key to resolve this problem.