Intonation Standards

[pete]

We're getting enough folks here with old horns, so I wanted to post a much shorter version of an article I wrote a long while ago.

First, an intonation standard is where you take a base note -- generally concert A -- and assign it a frequency in hertz (hz). All the other notes on that horn are multiples or fractions of that frequency. This is not terribly important to remember, though.

There are four-ish intonation standard that you have to worry about on woodwind instruments made in the mid-ish 19th century or later, If your horn is really old, you'll have more standards:

A=440hz. This is LOW PITCH, the modern standard. Some instruments, especially ones from Germany and the surrounding areas may have "A=880" stamped instead.
A=457hz. This is HIGH PITCH, one of the older standards.
A=435hz. This is a German standard used around WWII. Some instruments, especially ones from Germany and the surrounding areas may have "A=870" stamped instead.
A=442hz. This is the modern European orchestral standard.

The big thing to worry about is that high pitch woodwinds cannot play in tune with instruments that have other intonation standards. High pitch keyed woodwinds cannot be made or adjusted to play in tune with instruments that have other intonation standards. You cannot adjust your embochure or equipment to make a high pitch horn into a low pitch one.

In other words, especially if you're buying an instrument that was made before WWII, you need to make sure your instrument is low pitch. In most cases, there will be a "LP" or "L" stamp somewhere on the horn. However, a lot of French-made instruments prior to 1914 do not have this stamp and no Dolnet* instruments have this stamp, so it's "buyer beware."

High pitch is almost a half-step out of tune to a modern horn. However, it's very easy to play a A=442hz horn in tune with modern instruments or vice-versa. 8 cents isn't that much and you just need to adjust your embochure a little. It's a little harder with the A=435hz standard.

More a bit later.

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* You see the "DLP" stamp on some Dolnets. It stands for "Dolnet-Lefevre-Pigis," NOT "Dolnet Low Pitch." They also produced high pitch instruments into the 1960s.

 

[tictactux]

A440 vs A442 is 2 Hertz or roughly 8 cents. Still no biggie, as many instruments have some notes that are ±10 cents off.

 

[pete]

Yah. I got the cents wrong. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[pete]

How to tell what intonation standard you have:

If the horn is in playing condition, check the intonation with an electronic tuner. If the majority (don't just test one or two) of the notes are in tune at A=440hz, it's low pitch.

If the horn isn't in playing condition, you've got a problem. A high pitch horn is proportionally smaller than a low pitch horn of the same make and model and around the same serial number. As an example, you really can't put a 1890 Evette-Schaeffer baritone sax next to a 1960 Selmer Mark VI and say that the E-S is smaller, so therefore it's high pitch. You can put an 1890 E-S baritone with a serial number of 123 next to another 1890 E-S baritone with serial number 124 that you know is low pitch and take measurements.

As a general rule of thumb that works as well as any rule of thumb,

* Pre-1914 instrument: probably not low pitch.
* 1914-1939: possibly high pitch.
* 1939ish-1947ish Germanic: possibly A=437hz/870.
* Pre-1970 Dolnet: possibly high pitch.
* Post-1970 Buffet: possibly A=442hz (serial numbers with an "A" on the sax side, at least, are low pitch).

In other words, if it falls into one of the categories above, check for a "LP," "L," "Low Pitch," "A=440," or "A=880" stamp. Assume all other horns are high pitch until proven otherwise with a tuner.

 

[kymarto]

As far as flutes are concerned, many, if not most, of the early American brands were pitched at A=435, including most of the earlier Haynes flutes. French flutes, such as the Louis Lots, were also often pitched at 435. Conversely, most of the German flutes, even very early ones, were either at 440 or 442. A great number of these 435 flutes have had the headjoint shortened, which brings them up to pitch but makes for the infamous "long octave". Interestingly, until recently most of the flutes pitched at 440 were still using the 435 tonehole schema, which was one of the reasons that Cooper went to work on the scale.

There is a method of making a HP horn somewhat playable, that was used by the old jazzmen: you braise a rather large rod into the bore of a saxophone, and this lowers the pitch sorta kinda enough that with some mpc placement tweaking and embouchure adjustments, you can get somewhere in the neighborhood on most notes.

 

[jbtsax]

This ties into a discussion on the Delphi Repair Forum in which the question has been raised as to whether a dried out clarinet or oboe in which the wood "shrinks" to enlarge the bore goes higher or lower in pitch. Does anyone know whether the pitch of a larger diameter cylinder is different than the pitch of a smaller diameter cylinder when the lengths and everything else are equal except for the diameters?

 

[tictactux]

when a thick twine or rope can be hung down the bore to lower the pitch, then I'd be inclined to say the pitch goes down along with a reduction in bore diameter.
HOWEVER, the formula used to calculate the pitch of a vibrating air column doesn't have a variable for its diameter. Hence I think the Rope Thingy has deals more with dampening than with effective diameter.

 

[SOTSDO]

Having played Bb clarinets so equipped (in an effort to turn them into a A horn), I'd say that it is a mark of desperation to take this approach. Better to buy a cheaper replacement horn than to try to get blood out of a musical stone in this fashion.