Lip biting

Al Stevens

Al Stevens

Since rejoining the community band on alto (instead of trumpet), I've been spending more time in the shed with the alto. I realized that I have a bad habit that I never had with the tenor.

I'm pleased with how the tone and technique are coming along, but I'm biting my lower lip. I don't quite know what to do about it. I've tried pushing my lower lip forward, dropping my jaw, and even putting the tip of my tongue between my lower teeth and lip. But after playing a while, I forget to hold the corrective position, and the teeth sink in again. I don't notice it until the pain sets in.

I'm accustomed to face pain with a trumpet, but not a sax.

I just finished a practice session, and my tongue can feel a definite ridge impression on the backside of my lower lip. Something tells me this is not a good thing.
 
Hey Al,
Far be it from me to offer advice on your embouchure, but what I have been using for the past year or so to avoid getting a sore lip (upon advice from a friend who plays professionally with the local symphony on bass clarinet and also teaches sax; she uses it when she is playing a lot) is a product called EZO, a "denture cushion" that I work into a guard for the lower teeth. It's cheap and available at drug stores, and a little goes a long way. I can make at least 3 or 4 from a single "cushion" and there are 15 per box. Another gal I know, a sax student at the UNCSA uses cigarette papers---I've never tried them--seems like they'd be kind of slimey--but it works for her.

Regards, Ruth
 
Try softer reeds.

It may force you to relax.
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Or it may cause you to bite more, trying to stay in tune.

A certain amount of the "ridge impression" you describe is normal, especially when picking up a horn you haven't played in a while. I get it especially when I go to a smaller horn, which sounds like what you're talking about. Give it a little time and see if the problem goes away.

If you think it's a real fundamental embouchure issue, one thing you can experiment with is the old clarinet double-lip embouchure, with your upper lip curled over your top teeth. No quicker cure for biting! Try it during your practice sessions for a few days, and then go back to a single-lip embouchure.

Good luck!
 
AltoRuth said:
...Another gal I know, a sax student at the UNCSA uses cigarette papers...
Click to expand...
There are usually plenty of them around the bandstands where I play. I'll look into EZO. Thanks.
 
Take time when you are practicing to take the mouthpiece out of your face for a bit. More time spent practicing will develop the muscles to keep this from being an issue, but you need to rest periodically while playing until your chops are up to the long stretches.
 
I have the same issue when i'm playing alto .. go figure.
and when i sit in college bands on tenor I also tend to do this when i'm playing more of my "classical" mpcs

I think *my* problem, when i notice it is two fold. One keeping up with the intonation of the band (usually going UP) and two as Carl has mentioned the horn is in my mouth too long even when i'm not actually playing. When i'm playing in other ensembles etc the horn goes in/out of my mouth alot more than when I'm in a university band.

on clarinet i don't seem to have this issue at all .. but then the embouchure is different as the lip goes out and not up the same way
 
Play for a week with no part of the lower lip over your teeth. I think you might be pleasantly surprised. Remember, the first time you try something new, you usually suck. The second time you suck even more. And then you start making progress. The goal is not to change your embouchure to this permamently but to realize how little the bottom lip plays in the creating of good tone. YMMV.
 
Another vote for the EZO. Being cursed with rather sharp uneven lower teeth I have always had a problem with a sore lower lip after extended periods of practice even without putting excessive pressure with the lower teeth into the lip. EZO cushions have saved many a gig for me.

A few tricks I have learned over the years to minimize the upward pressure of the lower jaw while playing are:

-Press down against the top of the mouthpiece with the top teeth while lifting up slightly with the thumb in the thumb hook.

-Think of opening the teeth more as you play.

-Mentally direct the airstream toward the LH thumb on the thumb button.

-Practice lipping the note down a half step by dropping the jaw and then keeping the jaw in that position, bring the note back up to pitch using only the lips.

John
 
Al Stevens said:
Since rejoining the community band on alto (instead of trumpet), I've been spending more time in the shed with the alto. I realized that I have a bad habit that I never had with the tenor.

I'm pleased with how the tone and technique are coming along, but I'm biting my lower lip. I don't quite know what to do about it. I've tried pushing my lower lip forward, dropping my jaw, and even putting the tip of my tongue between my lower teeth and lip. But after playing a while, I forget to hold the corrective position, and the teeth sink in again. I don't notice it until the pain sets in.

I'm accustomed to face pain with a trumpet, but not a sax.

I just finished a practice session, and my tongue can feel a definite ridge impression on the backside of my lower lip. Something tells me this is not a good thing.
Click to expand...

Many guys have uneven or sharp lower teeth. My dentist made a covering
out of soft plastic for my lower teeth. Lately I've been using a laboratory
film called Parafilm M. This is a common problem. I can't play without the
covering. Been using it for many years.
martinm
 
For one piece I had to hold a low bass clarinet note (I think it was a D) for a few minutes. That's definitely the most painful thing I've ever played. The composer claimed the person who played this before sometimes bled during that part (not sure if to believe him :)). I actually have a lower middle tooth, as opposed to teeth, which might be worse. I also had dentist make a thin cover. He made it for more teeth and I cut it how I wanted. I tried using it, and did use it when practicing this part, but eventually didn't use it because it wasn't so comfortable to play with it. But I also don't like the rolling papers, and any other "tooth cover". But this might be a good idea for others.

Also, to play you need to bite to some degree. It's biting 'too much' that is the problem. But just because it hurts doesn't mean someone is biting too much. Usually without much practice it will hurt more, and after sometime your lip gets used to it and develops a tougher skin in that area, and it doesn't hurt anymore. It is best if you let it heel, at least in the beginning, which is usually prett fast.

Nitai
 
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It's been a long time since I've had to deal with this problem, and my solution was to just play through it. I would move to a different spot on my lower lip, play there for a while, then rotate to a new spot. I'd keep moving around like this, and eventually, my chops developed. Meanwhile, I carried a small bottle of mouthwash, and rinsed after everytime I played. This helped keep the area clean.

Believe it or not, I remember seeing an oldtime alto player using vinegar to numb the lower lip. I remember the guy carrying a small bottle of Heinz vinegar in his case, told me he washed his mouth with it to dull the pain. I never tried it.




Julian
 
when i was in high school just a *few* years ago (ok, decades) I used to bite really bad. I stilll have indentations under my lip from that. My teacher had me use cigarette paper folded up on top of my lower teeth, which are fairly sharp. there were times I would bleed too but then I was practicing up to 4 hours per day (excluding the time in school).

I don't bite anything like that, but any protection on the teeth will definitely help. And practicing the proper embouchure over and over will help. Just have to keep those bands from going sharp whilst playing :emoji_relaxed:

I don't know why but sometimes it seems that my jaw locks too tightly with the mpc in it ... quite annoying.
 
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