mk VII Information

Steve

Steve

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pulled this from the Selmer Paris website


Selmer Paris said:
  • It would take three years of development to turn the page after twenty years of hte "Mark VI". Michel Nouaux, a soloist with the Republican Guard, took part in this challenge. The "Mark VII's" improvements included a new octave key mechanism and a functional placement of the spatula group for the left-hand little finger, allowing for more flexible passage over the whole of the plate. The keywork was broadened to improve the handling of the instrument. The body to bell ring changed to a ring anchored at three points. And there was the return to the use of a plastic booster on the pads.
  • It was an instrument completely in step with its time. With the advent of Rock'n'Roll and pop music, the arrival of the "Mark VII" was a natural repsonse, reflecting Selmer's commitment to the search for a powerful sound, particularly rich in high harmonics.
  • However, only the alto and tenor saxophones saw the light of day; the soprano and baritone "Mark VII" prototypes started during this period were instead used as the basis for the "Super Action 80" line.
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ran across this on the internet

http://www.saxophonesforsale.co.uk/Selmer/FrederickHemke.asp

http://www.saxophonesforsale.co.uk/Images/Selmer/SelmerNew/Hemke.jpg
Frederick Hemke Appraises
the
Mark VII Saxophone


For two and a half years, I watched the growth and development of a remarkably innovative Saxophone, the Selmer Mark VII, under the vision and supervision of lean Selmer and the advice of Michel Nouaux, solo saxophonist of the Garde Republicaine Band.

In order to acquaint the saxophonist with this new instrument. a number o technical and mechanical changes demand discussion. but by far the most significant change involve the concept of the new instrument's sound. It is vibrant. full, rich, and gratifying. Moreover, the sound is in uniform with these qualities throughout the entire range of the instrument-a unique achievement. The combination of the new design, a new neck and the new –square chambered S-80 mouthpiece has produced a sound similar to that of its great predecessor, the Mark VI, but with a richer, more controlled, more uniform quality that seems almost effortless to produce. The sound of the Mark VI was beautiful: the Mark VII has neatly refined and enhanced this attribute. While such differences might not he perceived in the beginting student's sound, the accomplished performer will immediately appreciate the subtle but significant change.

The Mark VII has not lost any of the established quality look of Selmer saxophones. but a close examination reveals pertinent mechanical improvements The right hand little finger spatulas of the Eb and C. keys have been redesigned to improve their gliding characteristics. The two keys are now mounted on separate posts and rods, which results in a lighter, easier and faster action. The left hand little finger spatulas have also been redesigned into a larger finger board area. More controIled shifts to low B and Bb are the result .A new height to the high left hand D Eb and F keys places them closer into i the left hand palm and allows a freer. more controllable feel. The octave key has been provided with a new pivot point for easier operation. All of the lower stack rods which provide articulation to and from the left hand little finger, have been mounted on a single arch for a more comfortable left hand feel. The professional saxophonist will also appreciate the elongated and newly shaped right-hand chromatic F# key and the redesigned shape of the right hand high, E and F# keys.

The performer will also notice changes in the body ,calculated to improve the intonation and response. Bore changes create for the performer, a tremendous potential for a room filling exspansive sound.The instrument possesses a richer dynamic: range. from must be the ultimate of pianissimos to a fortissimo more powerful than ever. The neck affects the intonation and production of sound conspicuously enough to allow the sensitive listener as well as the performer to recognize the improvement .To the discriminating musician these differences are substantial enough to cross the line between that which was excellent and that which has been refined into something truly unique.

During the developement of the ,Mark VI I, I worked intermittently !n an advisory capacity with Jean Selmer and his prlzed new instrument, and it has been gratifying to observe how a large instrument cornpanv has not closed its mind and ears to the possibilities of innovation and improvement, Selmer has consistently sought to accommodate The suggestions of those of us who have worked with the instrumenrt They have rernained keenly aware of the performers aesthetic and mechanical needs, and of the listener's fresh musical experience. This will surerly not be the final Saxophone which the Selmer Company will produce. but it is, at present the ultimate achievement in Saxophone design. it truly represents "the state of the art."
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Kewl stuff!

Of course, there are a few Mark VII sopraninos, sopranos, low A altos, baris and basses out there. I chronicled a few of them on my old website. It's a bit of a stretch to call those horns "the basis for the S80", because they're generally not more than Mark VIs with some updated keywork, but opinions can differ :).

I've only played one Mark VII (a very good condition tenor) and I really wasn't "wowed" by it. As a successor to the Mark VI, it's a bit of a let-down. It's a good horn with a nice, dark tone, tho. It's a horn that you have to appraise based on its own merits, not from looking at its pedigree.

I do know, however, that Selmer did sell a lot of Mark VIIs and I've read some of the ad copy and reviews from when it was introduced. It was definitely warmly received by a lot of folks.
 
I've had my VII alto for 25+ years but I don't play in Toronto
just look at my sig line for pics

The VIIs did differ drastically from the VIs.
I don't know about any bore changes et all but would defer that to someone in the know (such as in the article)

but if you compare the tonehole sizes they were different, even visually.
see here http://www.clarinetperfection.com/work/selmer6v7tonehold.bmp
http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9661

A few years ago I went through and measured sax tonehole sizes. I also found out at that time that toneholes are not perfectly circular, neither are key cups, nor pads.
 
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I've always liked the Mark VII alto. As for the tenors, some of the best and worst Selmer tenors I've seen were Mark VII horns. I don't know why.
 
Groovekiller said:
I've always liked the Mark VII alto. As for the tenors, some of the best and worst Selmer tenors I've seen were Mark VII horns. I don't know why.
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The body octave pip diameter I've seen has some drastic variations on mine and other horns. When it is equivalent in size to a VI it's such a stable horn. When it's way too large it's a monster but unstable.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/saxaqueaky.htm
 
FWIW, I've seen at least four different style necks for the VI. As I rarely have a chance to hold and/or play the horns I glom pictures of, myself, I can only tell you that there were obvious visual differences, especially in the "S" logo.

(That "S" logo on the neck is copied quite often, probably the best of which is from Grassi.)

The BA had some more obvious physical changes to the neck: the teakettle octave vent, for instance. The VII? I don't have any records confirming or denying.

My opinion, and this is based on research and observation, is that Selmer often tinkered with their designs and as soon as they patented or applied for a patent on something, it made its way onto the horn. If the change was lauded by folks, it stayed. If not, it got removed. The most major changes seem to be with the neck or bow.
 
I've owned one Mark VII tenor. I had to sell it as the keywork was simply not friendly to my small hands. The tone was nice enough and that particular horn was much more aggressive than most VI's I have played.

I found out after getting rid of the horn that Randy Jones could do some modifications to make it more VI like.
 
you can actually swap out (with minor mods) the large table keys. The Selmer USA keywork is an easy swap.

i have small hands too. and the biggest problem is the Bb table key as my palm hits the C# part of the table.

i mod'd my table keys and tightened them up tremendously. From the factory the space between the keys was stupifying.

I still like the touch locations of the VIs though especially the RH.
though i like the higher palm keys of both the left and right hands.. perfectly placed for me.
 
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here's some old pics after the table mod - of pulling the keys closer together.

just the G# key itself after i cut down a tab. the tab was round and stuck out quite a bit more
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/work/VII_Table/VII-01.jpg

finished
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/work/VII_Table/VII-02.jpg

wish i had a before and after. but look at the top flat arm under the keys. you can see it is cut off. it used to be round and really pushed the keys apart.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/work/VII_Table/VII-03.jpg

the table key is still a bit annoying but so much better than factory. There is a bit more fiddling than just cutting off the tabs as you have to bend the keys into each other - notice the location of the G# key in relation to the others now. and you have to be aware of the tiling mechanism and tab on the C# key and get it all just right.

I believe they made them closer on later models VII tenors. but early models were wide spaced.


also .. when i find it. I have pics of necks and their various shapes.
 
Not a fan...

I've played one Mark VII alto, and it was easily one of the worst horns I have encountered. Intonation varied from top to bottom, and the horn was anything but comfortable under my fingers.

It may have been the wrong mouthpiece or something like that, or it may have just been me. I know that the guy who owned it has long since dumped it for Yamaha and Mark VI horns.

When they first came out, it was a running joke that, if you sent in a postcard to Selmer (Paris), you would be entered into a drawing. First prize was a Mark VII horn of your choice; second prize was two Mark VII horns of your choice...
 
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