I turned 73 six months ago, and since then have felt like I had to work a lot harder to play the bari. Oh well, the penalty for getting older. Last week I took it to my tech as a final effort before giving up the monster. You guessed it. He called to say he found numerous serious leaks. On the plus side, I managed to play through the leaks. On the nimus side, how could I be too dumb to realize it needed adjustment?
not only players deteriorate
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You're not dumb at all retread. All horns go out of adjustment slowly over time, and as players we adapt to their slow deterioration. It's only when they hit a "critical mass" so to speak, and we can't do a particular thing anymore--eg: subtone below low D or C--that we start to think maybe it's not us, but the horn. Then when we take it to the tech, he/she finds lots of things wrong and when it comes back, it suddenly plays like a new horn again.
That's also why when we first get our horns back from an overhaul, we likely have a hard time playing them. We have gotten so used to compensating for the horn's weaknesses that we suddenly have to "relearn" how to play our own horn again. That can take a bit, depending on the player, and how bad the horn was.
The plus side for you is that you might not need to give up the bari after all. I work in a Big Band. Our bari player is over 80--83 IIRC--and he is going strong. He does have a respiratory problem, and playing bari is actually what keeps his lungs relatively clear, and helps keep him off an 02 tank.
My point is simply that age alone is not a reason to give up the big horns, and don't feel bad that you didn't know it needed adjusting. It happens to all of us. It's called being a sax player.
That's also why when we first get our horns back from an overhaul, we likely have a hard time playing them. We have gotten so used to compensating for the horn's weaknesses that we suddenly have to "relearn" how to play our own horn again. That can take a bit, depending on the player, and how bad the horn was.
The plus side for you is that you might not need to give up the bari after all. I work in a Big Band. Our bari player is over 80--83 IIRC--and he is going strong. He does have a respiratory problem, and playing bari is actually what keeps his lungs relatively clear, and helps keep him off an 02 tank.
My point is simply that age alone is not a reason to give up the big horns, and don't feel bad that you didn't know it needed adjusting. It happens to all of us. It's called being a sax player.
Many times players don't even bother taking it to a tech.
They end up playing a new(er) horn and think that it is worlds better than their current one, then buy the new one. When in fact, as mentioned above, their current one has slowly over time created issues.
Personally, I think pads deteriorate over time and I consider 10 yrs to be way past the critical mass of them needing replacement (varies dependent upon material and how it was kept). I think that at 10 yrs (and younger) their porosity increases dramatically which actually is a leak, so the instrument is not as "fast" as in the past.
Also, since their increase in pores it may actually puff up from condensation making a horn that plays fine for 10 minutes then doesn't play well at all afterwards. Also confounding the tech who gives it a couple minutes of play and has no issues.
Conversely, the leak may make them sound darker. Also the other "critical mass" buildup of gunk inside normally makes them sound darker too.
And if the player does get their instrument refurbished it normally plays much differently and sounds different too.
They end up playing a new(er) horn and think that it is worlds better than their current one, then buy the new one. When in fact, as mentioned above, their current one has slowly over time created issues.
Personally, I think pads deteriorate over time and I consider 10 yrs to be way past the critical mass of them needing replacement (varies dependent upon material and how it was kept). I think that at 10 yrs (and younger) their porosity increases dramatically which actually is a leak, so the instrument is not as "fast" as in the past.
Also, since their increase in pores it may actually puff up from condensation making a horn that plays fine for 10 minutes then doesn't play well at all afterwards. Also confounding the tech who gives it a couple minutes of play and has no issues.
Conversely, the leak may make them sound darker. Also the other "critical mass" buildup of gunk inside normally makes them sound darker too.
And if the player does get their instrument refurbished it normally plays much differently and sounds different too.
I seem to recall an old thread about how often you take your horn to the shop. There were two basic schools of thought - those of us who take it in annually for a "tune up & lube job", and those that wait until things are seriously wrong. I belong to the former group. Every spring I would make an appointment with Paul Maslin to go over my regular gigging horns while I waited. Usually no more than an hour, and worth every penny. When you wait till things are wrong, you need to leave the horn at the shop and break out the backup (if you have one).
Of course, not all techs provide this kind of service. Now that I don't live in the Chicago area, I need to find someone in the hinterlands of east Tennessee to do this. Either that, or take some long road trips!
Of course, not all techs provide this kind of service. Now that I don't live in the Chicago area, I need to find someone in the hinterlands of east Tennessee to do this. Either that, or take some long road trips!
Quite correct saxhound. There are the 2 schools of thought. I remember that thread too, but I'm not sure where it was either.
I usually take my gigging horns to the shop annually, although lately I've been a bit remiss about it.
When I lived in the Maritimes, my tech was a 4.5 hour drive from my house, so I planned my annual trip and stayed in a motel for a couple of days while he did my horn 8+ horns. Now that my tech is 40 minutes away, I'm a bit lax about when I go. I usually go before a big show. The last really big one was a year ago.
I do have a few horns that need tweaking, but since I'm not using most of them ATM, getting them all done is not a huge priority. My main 4 (SATB) are always gig ready, and my bass can be ready within a week if need be. But when you have as many as I do--and you're not a tech yourself--playing through the leaks in just part of your reality.
Supply costs have gone up dramatically,
as have land prices (which affects rent, etc).
Thus in order to compensate techs have increased their rates .. or just go out of business.
Every time I play my horns I test them for ease of play. I have a very light touch when I play (always have) so when I know I have to tighten the hands I know something is slightly out of adjustment. Sometimes it's my tired embouchure though.
as have land prices (which affects rent, etc).
Thus in order to compensate techs have increased their rates .. or just go out of business.
Every time I play my horns I test them for ease of play. I have a very light touch when I play (always have) so when I know I have to tighten the hands I know something is slightly out of adjustment. Sometimes it's my tired embouchure though.
+1 to what Steve said about rent etc. That being said, I haven't noticed my tech's prices go up in the 10 years I've been seeing him.
However, to put this in perspective, working musicians haven't seen a raise in pay in roughly 4 decades. I wrote an article about 6 weeks ago that might be an interesting read, which puts salaries into perspective.
From what I've seen in the past, if you go to an established and older store/repair shop that's not in a high cost district
they usually have all their monthly costs paid for - bought the building, all the tools they need were bought decades ago, etc.
So they end up only having to pay lights, salaries, consumables (corks, pads, etc).
There were a few old stores I used to wander into to look at stuff.
All their prices were low for everything.
Getting an alto sax repad INCLUDING relaquering was something like $200 !!
(back in 2008 just before the owner/operator/repair man passed away).
even online stores where the brick and mortar exists some prices are low for what they sell. Until something happens and someone else buys the place then all of a sudden prices are readjusted to market value.
But the price to start a new music store / repair facility is gigantic nowadays. All the city requirements for operations, requirements for spray booths (unless they are grandfathered in for already being there), high cost of repair equipment .. dent balls and dent machines can easily be well over $10k. The initial fixed costs, and reoccurring monthly costs are high even before salaries. Thus high charges.
And as you said, working musicians pay hasn't risen. Although the cost of a new or even used high quality instrument is exponential lately. The cost of repaying a loan on an instrument (or time to save up) takes longer. I wonder if it's cheaper to pay an interest rate on a loan vs trying to save up as the valuations go up and you need to save more ?
they usually have all their monthly costs paid for - bought the building, all the tools they need were bought decades ago, etc.
So they end up only having to pay lights, salaries, consumables (corks, pads, etc).
There were a few old stores I used to wander into to look at stuff.
All their prices were low for everything.
Getting an alto sax repad INCLUDING relaquering was something like $200 !!
(back in 2008 just before the owner/operator/repair man passed away).
even online stores where the brick and mortar exists some prices are low for what they sell. Until something happens and someone else buys the place then all of a sudden prices are readjusted to market value.
But the price to start a new music store / repair facility is gigantic nowadays. All the city requirements for operations, requirements for spray booths (unless they are grandfathered in for already being there), high cost of repair equipment .. dent balls and dent machines can easily be well over $10k. The initial fixed costs, and reoccurring monthly costs are high even before salaries. Thus high charges.
And as you said, working musicians pay hasn't risen. Although the cost of a new or even used high quality instrument is exponential lately. The cost of repaying a loan on an instrument (or time to save up) takes longer. I wonder if it's cheaper to pay an interest rate on a loan vs trying to save up as the valuations go up and you need to save more ?