On Mark VI Sopraninos, Sopranos, Baris and Basses

[pete]

As mentioned, I'm doing some VI research.

1. I've heard from several folks that the bass design was unchanged from the Super (Balanced) Action or Balanced Action -- if there even were any BA basses. I can confirm that, primarily because the VI bass doesn't even have the patented VI G# cluster found on the alto and tenor. However, because the SBA and VI basses do have right-side bell keys, the horn's obviously different from the Selmer Super Series basses.

2. While I know it's not a common pitch, I've been unable to find a sopranino made before s/n 97xxx (1961/1962). The majority I've seen are much later than that. (Oh. The first Selmer 'nino I've seen is a Modele 26, so they were at least available if you wanted to buy one.)

3. I've heard some people say that the soprano is basically unchanged from the BA and SBA (which look the same to me -- excepting the curved BAs, of course). It's not. The keywork is distinctly different, but it's a tad odd that Selmer had a completely different design for the G# cluster on the soprano than any other pitch.

If you're wondering, the lowest Mark VI soprano serial I've seen is 5986x.

4. While I assume there were baritones available, the earliest ones I can find are in the 85xxx (1958/1959) range. Anyone seen something earlier?

 

[SOTSDO]

My Selmer baritone...

...(while I still had it) had a serial number in the 1959 range. I don't recall it at this remove (I sold it in 1977), but I was more than satisfied with the horn, Mark VI or not.

 

[pete]

...(while I still had it) had a serial number in the 1959 range. I don't recall it at this remove (I sold it in 1977), but I was more than satisfied with the horn, Mark VI or not.

Kewl. Thanks. Here's a second question, then: are you sure it was a Mark VI and not an SBA? Selmer was always fond of keeping the older design until there was enough demand.

FWIW, I did some more research on the basses and found pics of one from 1979ish and it had Mark VII-style keywork and the tilting G#/Bb cluster. That then begs the question of, "When did Selmer start using the newer keywork designs on the bass?"

 

[sideC]

Selmer's early mk6 production lineup can become interesting. I have an old Selmer Elkhart brochure, an orange colored fold out, that dates from the very beginning of mk6 production. The soprano pictured is actually a Super, looks nothing like a mk6. The alto is a sba with mk6 mechanism. The bell has the "Sole Agents" logo that I've seen on most BA and sba horns, but only on the very, very early 6's. The neck octave key on the alto has the double S, or "superman," monogram, not the one that you normally see, and still see on every Selmer alto and tenor since.

The baritone (low Bb) on my brochure seems to be an sba all the way. The bell has a different contour than the 6, different engraving, and the horn just seems to exude that sba countenance. I've played two of these horns, a low Bb, and a low A, and both were incredible saxophones. Neither was for sale, I would have loved to own both.

As far as the engraving is concerned, a friend has a very early mk6 tenor, probably from the 54 or 55 thousand series. It's an Indiana assembly. The engraving is different from any mk6 or sba that I've seen. He's a Conn player, so his Selmer remains in mint condition and he bought it new, so he knows it's history.

I've seen mk6 bari's with the early serial numbers. Right now I'm working a little studio project with a lady who plays a low A bari with an early 70'xxx serial. My other friend Claire Daly has an even older gold plated low A horn, probably from the 50,xxx or 60,xxx range. Both horns have the full mk6 features, tilting spatula and the rest of the goodies.

I used to work with Jerome Richardson, who originated the soprano lead with the Thad Jones Mel Lewis Orchestra. Jerome's soprano was a silver mk6 with a low serial, probably 55 or 56 thou. It had a fixed right hand thumb hook and Jerome was a super soprano player. He had stories. He and Phil Woods and Budd Johnson went to Selmer in Paris and had Marcel Mule pick out horns for them. Heh heh, not too shabby, eh?
Got to go practice.....

Julian