playing flat on my BC

[Bari Sax Guy]

Hi WF members,

I have had my Pedler BC for just over a year now. The "train wreck" of a horn was overhauled beautifully by my tech. This is one of the good ones, when Harry was still in charge - five piece -wood body but w/o the double register key.

I cleaned and polished it -put some peppermint oil in it at first to mask the funky odors, then left it on the stand for a good "airing out" it has that art deco Pedler engraving on the bell. It went back to the tech 3x over the last year to correct leaks and adjustments (I have a neat LED12V slim leak light) and it now plays nice from top (interesting altissimo) to bottom. I obtained 2 Grabner pieces in a trade from a SOTW member. One is a Selmer blank and the other is unmarked. Grabner now uses Zinner blanks. The former owner of my 2 Grabners tells me that he could not tell much difference between the two. Now that I have had some playing time (after a 30 + year recess from playing clarinet) I agree. The Grabners respond nicely, but intonation is an issue.

So my issue is that it plays uniformly flat. I am guessing that it is my relaxed "sax" embouchure? I play flat on all of my saxes including my Series II Bari, but I simply push the mouthpiece up until the cork is covered and it solves the problem. With the BC it is pushed all the way in, so no where to go. I use a 2.5 and a 3.5 Fibracell, the stiffer reed doesn't seem to make much of a difference.


Any thoughts/ suggestions? Thanks

 

[Gandalfe]

I had the same problems you describe but never attributed it to the mouthpieces. It was the well-maintained but old bass clarinet. When I purchased a new instrument, I no longer had those issues. YMMV. Have you tried having the best bass clarinet player you know try the instrument?

 

[tictactux]

if you play uniformly flat on all your instruments, then it might be time to revise your embouchure. Also, have an experienced player test-drive your equipment, maybe there's also an issue with mouthpieces and reeds.

BTW see if you can find a good student mouthpiece for your bass (eg Fobes Debut), they're often designed to help against too flat tuning.

 

[jbtsax]

The recommended mouthpiece pitch for bass clarinet is an F concert. That would be a good place to start.

 

[Bari Sax Guy]

I had the same problems you describe but never attributed it to the mouthpieces. It was the well-maintained but old bass clarinet. When I purchased a new instrument, I no longer had those issues. YMMV. Have you tried having the best bass clarinet player you know try the instrument?

Thanks Gandalfe and Tictactux - The mouthpiece is really the only place to go, other than a neck - which isn't practical. I e-mailed a BC player (he plays in one of the local orchestras) and asked him if he wanted to evaluate my Pedler.

The Fobes might be worth a try. I've also thought about a Vandoren B50.

 

[Carl H.]

Hi WF members,

I have had my Pedler BC for just over a year now. The "train wreck" of a horn was overhauled beautifully by my tech. This is one of the good ones, when Harry was still in charge - five piece -wood body but w/o the double register key.

Any thoughts/ suggestions? Thanks

Does this have the automatic double register with the longer than standard upper joint/short neck?

 

[Bari Sax Guy]

Here are some photos of the register key. The bell too
I think Carl H nailed it regarding the description of the register key.

JBT sax - played the mouthpiece, and it played "F" until I tightened up my embouchure then it played "A"
Tictactux is probably right = experimenting with the tuner and tightening the corners of my mouth brings the BC closer into tune.

The "Pro" BC player that I contacted is away at the moment, but has offered to meet with me and evaluate the Pedler.
It's kind of of a shame ...I like my loose embouchure -I get compliments on my Bari sound, but I need to re=think the BC.

I will report back once I've been able to hook up with the Pro BC player and hopefully received his review of this
somewhat funky almost 100 year old horn. In his e-mail he advises that his only experience is with Selmers and Buffets, but he seems interested....

 

[SOTSDO]

Without exception, every "saxophone to clarinet" conversion has suffered from the flat syndrome as they learn. There is a world of difference between the two embouchures, and the clarinet is designed (with its mouthpiece and reeds) to respond to the clarinet version.

Conversely, most clarinet players that I have known who make the "clarinet to saxophone" conversion play way sharp at first. I know that I had the problem, and my embouchure on alto, tenor and baritone needed to be "detuned" to work with the sax.

Put another way, they do look similar, but the clarinet and the saxophone are different instruments, and they each have their learning curve. Even switching from the soprano to the clarinet is problematic at first.

As I said up top, it's easier to cross from clarinet to sax, than it is to go the other way. It's not to say that we clarinet players are superior in some way, it's just easier to "go slack" than it is to do "the tighten up" (with apologies to the 1970s). And, similar problems exist with going from (insert name of woodwind instrument here) to (insert name of woodwind instrument here). That's just life.

And, the problem could be much, much less. Think of the adjustment that Tom "Bones" Malone goes through when he switches from sax to trombone.

 

[pete]

I went from Bb clarinet to bass clarinet to bari sax to Bb contrabass clarinet -- and some bass sax. I maintain that the reason why my soprano sax tone sucks is because I play straight sopranos like a clarinet and that doesn't work. I sound much better on fully curved (not "alto" body with a semi-bent neck) soprano saxophones.

As far as the bass clarinet is concerned, you also have the option to play one using a floor peg or with a necktrap. I'd recommend the floor peg.

Looking at the pics, I can see that the horn looks like it's got bands in three separate places. That generally means that it did have an awful lot of damage at one time. That it plays mostly in-tune is a plus -- but do continue working on the embochure.

 

[Bari Sax Guy]

As far as the bass clarinet is concerned, you also have the option to play one using a floor peg or with a necktrap. I'd recommend the floor peg.

Yes, I like playing with the peg. Even with the peg fully extended, I need to prop it up a bit for some reason, I'm average height 5'9".

The BC did have a crack that was repaired with those three bands. The repair was done well, I kind of like the bands

 

[saxhound]

Ah, the 70's. I love Archie Bell and the Drells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7vm-k-AaA

 

[Bari Sax Guy]

As a follow up, Paul, the Bass Clarinetist, came over and checked out my Pedler. Paul plays BC and Sax in a local Symphony Orchestra and a community band. I got to try his low C Buffet as well. I appreciate his time (he had to travel a bit - we are not exactly next door neighbors).

He found that the Pedler played quite flat on the lower Clarion notes.

Paul suggested that I have his tech evaluate the Pedler https://leonardsmusic.myshopify.com/
Mr. Leonard is the tech for the BSO, and a straight shooter, according to Paul.

I'm going to shed a bit. The only other thing that bugs me is the excessive play in the left hand pinky keys.
I would think a tech could adjust this, I had a similar problem with my Bari and the tech fixed it (somehow, something to do with corking)

 

[SOTSDO]

Play in keywork can be taken out, through a variety of techniques. Sometimes, it's a bent post somewhere along the line, other times it is wear at the end of barrels on axle keys.

However, many lower-priced instruments have long "lever keys" that are just poorly fitted. And, I have played many a used Buffet which suffered from this in excess - not so much with Selmer or Leblanc. It has happened enough that I class it as a deficiency on the Buffet horns (almost all of which have been many years old, I hasten to add).

As for modern instruments, I was floored when I tried a new Selmer horn, one being squired around by a factory rep at a clarinet recital here at Rice University. I was expecting something along the line of what I got with my Model 33, but instead was presented with a keywork mess on the lower joint. Lever keys that barely bore on their activating surfaces, more slop in the long keys that I have seen in century old Buffet instruments from before World War I.

It was a complete mess, and (unbelievably) had just been serviced before the rep took wing for Houston. Or, at least that's what he told me.

Acoustically, it was superb. Mechanically, it was as bad as the Chinese horns that I've tried in the past fifteen years or so.