Proper name confusion

greggsewell

I'm the music education editor for GIA Publications, and I'm in the middle of editing Teaching Music through Performance in Band, Volume 8. I'm a musician myself (not just a copy editor) -- a once-upon-a-time alto sax player -- and have run into a problem I cannot solve, even with all the power of the internet.

What's the proper name for a particular member of the clarinet family?

One of the authors of a Teacher Resource Guide refers to a contra-alto clarinet. That didn't sound right to my ears, so I went looking for the correct information.

What I found was three variants that (I think) refer to the same instrument:

  1. Contra-alto clarinet
  2. Contralto clarinet
  3. Alto clarinet
Grove's (GIA has the most recent comprehensive set of volumes) doesn't have a separate entry for any of these designations.

The general article on clarinet doesn't make a distinction between the three.

Other music references, including my old favorite, the Harvard, don't help either.

So when I discovered this forum, I knew I had found a group that a) would know, and b) would likely give me a lively, interesting set of opinions to consider.

So, dear soon-to-be-friends:

What's the right name for this instrument?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Peace to all,

Gregg
 
I'd go for "Contra-Alto" clarinet if it's the bass clarinet next bigger cousin in Eb (between bass and contrabass).
I'd go for "Alto" if it's the bass' little cousin in Eb (an octave higher than the Contra-Alto).
"Contra-Alto" and "Alto" are definitely two different instruments.
"Contralto" refers to a singer's voice IMO, not an instrument.
 
I agree. Alto clarinet is the alto clarinet in Eb, transposed the same as alto saxophone. Contra-alto is an octave lower, transposed the same as baritone saxophone. The word contra is added the same as for contrabass, but the hyphen is probably there just because contraalto looks strange.
 
Here's more info than you'll probably ever need: http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24609&postcount=8

As a Latin primer, "contra" means "against". This prefix is used in a variety of English words, like "contraindication". In a vocal or instrumental sense, it means "lower". In the case of a contralto clarinet "an octave lower than alto".

(Yes, I took way too many Latin classes.)

From a linguistic standpoint, there is no difference between "contralto" and "contra alto". I can say that "contra-alto" is more often used for "contra-alto clarinet".

Now, "countertenor" doesn't mean "lower tenor", even though "contra" and "counter" have the same meaning. "Countertenor" is from a completely different word that meant "high tenor".

(Yes, I was an English major, too.)
 
FWIW Dr. Donald McCathren in his publicaton "The Teacher's Guide to the Alto, Bass, and Contrabass Clarinets refers to that instrument as the Eb Contrabass Clarinet. The other of course is called the Bb Contrabass Clarinet.

It would seem to me that this nomenclature would be the simplest to use and also the least confusing. In the world of tubas, instruments are simply named for the key they are in.

I think the practical would trump the intellectual (technical) especially in the type of educational publication in question, because as Merlin pointed out the instrument is already referred to by that name in many scores (and parts).

John
 
jbtsax said:
I think the practical would trump the intellectual (technical) especially in the type of educational publication in question, because as Merlin pointed out the instrument is already referred to by that name in many scores (and parts).
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However, when surfin' That Auction Site, a search against "EEb contrabass" would yield exactly zero results. "Contra alto", on the other hand, ...

Now, as there may be a "scientific" name for that beast, how do we teach people to forget the "popular" names?
 
Gandalfe said:
Ben, some people will always be unteachable.

John, I like the idea of EEb, BBb, and EEEb contrabass clarinets. That makes way too much sense to me though.
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Would you really need both BB and contra? That seems redundant to me, kind of like "dishonest politician".
 
From what I understand, you can call a tuba a "BBb" instrument, but you're just referring to "BBb Tuba" ("tuba" Latin for "horn" -- told ya). The implication, however, is that "BBb" means "contrabass", so if you're talking "EEb contrabass clarinet", that'd be the octocontra.

Logically speaking, at least :).

Now, the octocontras were one-off instruments by Leblanc. I seem to remember that they were selling off their collections a few years back ....
 
Gandalfe said:
Need or want, that's the question isn't it. :cool:
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According to my quick Tuba research a BBb tuba is a "contra" tuba which plays an octave below the "tenor" tuba which is pitched the same as a baritone horn. The Eb tuba is the tuba a fourth above the BBb.

I believe the term for BBb is "double Bb" which means an octave lower than Bb. Contra Bb would also mean the same thing. Soooooo. I guess I'm with Pete on this one and would say you would neither "need" nor "want" the word "contra" to have the DDdouble LLletters in front of it.

John
 
And...

...none of this addresses the real problem - the lower clarinets are all misnamed once you get below the much maligned alto clarinet.

As I've heard the issue addressed by a composition teacher once, very long ago:

Alto clarinet: The true alto of the clarinet family, albeit a worthless piece of junk - there are auctions on eBay that offer to pay the winner good money to take one out of the seller's hands

Bass clarinet: The true tenor of the clarinet family, and probably the best designed of all the clarinets, maybe of all of the musical instruments - a true prince amongst the musical family

Eb contra alto clarinet: The true baritone of the clarinet family, also useful as a replacement P trap for your kitchen sink

Bb contra bass clarinet: The true bass of the clarinet family, which can be used to shore up a sagging ceiling in a pinch

I still think that there is a state high school regulation agency person somewhere, and that s/he regularly receives kickbacks from Conn, Buescher, Leblanc and Selmer for slanting high school band competitions so that the arrangements used are required to have alto and contra clarinet parts.
 
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Here I was, just really beginning to understand (or so I thought) some of the wide variation present in the saxophone - mezo soprano in G, bass in C, F altos etc. and even etc. - and now you guys spring all this clarinet stuff on me ...

Thanks!! (Will e-Bay sellers really pay me for taking an alto?) A whole new world to be boggled by ...
 
Saxophones:

* Bb sopranissimo ("piccolo", if you prefer). The most common is Eppelsheim's Soprillo.
* Eb sopranino (or "Eb soprano", if you prefer).
* Bb and C sopranos
* G mezzo soprano (the name I gave to the instrument from Peter Jessen).
* F alto (the "mezzo soprano" and "Conn-O-Sax" names were dreamt up by Conn).
* Eb alto
* Bb and C tenors
* Eb (and possibly F) baritones
* Bb and C basses
* Eb contrabass
* Bb and C contrabass. These are produced by Eppelsheim.

Slide saxophones were available in a variety of pitches. I think the lowest was a Bb tenor.

One of these days, I'll finish http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1240
 
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