Refinish a Wooden Woodwind?

pete

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I was browsing the web the other day and I came across a website that sells high-end bassoons. One of the cheapest ($2K) that they were selling was a refinished wooden bassoon.

I've never heard of refinishing a wooden woodwind. People relacquer and/or replate saxophones and other brass/metal woodwinds all the time, but I had never heard of that with a wooden horn.

(Although, come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone replating a flute.)

So,

1. Does this affect the way the horn plays? I know if you had a crack in a wooden horn (or a pin or band), that can cause some serious intonation problems. However, external wall thickness really doesn't mean that much, if the existence of "skeleton" metal clarinets vs. double-walled ones is any indication.

2. Can you do this with other woodwinds? Say, a refinished Buffet R13 alto clarinet (just in case Terry's reading)?

3. How much does this affect value? As I said, the bassoon I looked at was $2K, but I know that even low-end bassoons start at $6K.

Hey, you refinish pianos, don't you?
 
pete said:
I've never heard of refinishing a wooden woodwind. People relacquer and/or replate saxophones and other brass/metal woodwinds all the time, but I had never heard of that with a wooden horn.
Click to expand...
I think that the more "uncluttered" surface an instrument is showing, the more worthwile a refinish might appear. A clarinet more or less disappears in the player's hands while a bassoon has a lot to show in terms of shiny wood and such.
Other industries sell blemished gear as "refurbished" or "overhauled", so I don't think it's a very exotic thing to do unto a wooden instrument.
Don't they refinish violins and such as well?

I once repainted and relacquered a Bundy clarinet bell on which I had to reconstruct a chipped-off section. (You might wonder whether this was a worthwile thing to do, but it was more of a proof-of-concept)
 
Clarinets can be refinished. Just look at ebay and there will be a clarinet with a new overhaul in which the wood looks perfect. perfect grain, perfect coloring etc.

there's many things you can do to a bore, toneholes, and the exterior finish to a clarinet.

A bad looking clarinet can be worked and made to look like it just came from the factory and be a perfect "black" by restaining, polishing etc the exterior. In the old days they used to seal the bore too, that can also be done. In clarinets older than say 1950 I now seal the toneholes too.

If the wood is unstained then you can replemish wood oils to bring out the "old" colors. Then seal the surface and polish. many clarinets are stained black to make it even throughout the entire instrument.

If you have ever come across a clarinet wth an emblem that is shallow, or serial numbers that are shallow, then at some point the wood was polished (or ragged) and a small amount of wood thickness was lost .. especialy on older clarinets.
 
I've stripped an old Buffet bass clarinet down to bare wood (using lighter fluid to cut the accumulated grime and goop), and then re-oiled the wood before re-installing everything (after buffing it up with a polish wheel and polish). It was fun when I had a big problem with finding fun of any kind, but I'm not so sure that I would want to go through it all again.

My biggest problem was not setting the pads, but rather "de-denting" the bell and neck with the tools that I had at hand. In particular, working them out in the neck was an ordeal.

However, in the end I left the horn in far better shape than I found it (a moth or mouse eaten wreck). Since it wasn't on the inventory, and since it was an Albert horn that no one else was likely to play, I should have just boosted the thing when I left the college.

Damn'd ethical upbringing...
 
Last week I took two instruments to Jim Scimonetti's store in Lancaster, CA, for some work. I'd recently been gifted these instruments and I posted about them in the Clarinet and King alto saxophone sections.

The one horn is a no-name wood C-Albert System low-pitch clarinet. Jim showed me a recently overhauled and refurbished Buffet Boehm A-clarinet from the early 1900's. It was gorgeous. He had the Bb partner on his bench. too.

Jim offered to do my C-Albert the same way and I agreed.

He said he'd clean and polish the keywork (described as German nickel) and the wood and re-pad the horn. I'm anxious to get it back (which will be a few weeks because I'll be out of town for a while on vacation, etc.). I will report back on the results (of course).

His shop is also going over the King alto, but I don't anticipate the need for a full overhaul. DAVE
 
So, does the refinish affect tone/intonation and/or value?

In response to TTT, I think if you stripped a Stradivarius and restained it -- even if you were VERY good, someone will tell you that you have seriously impacted the tone of the instrument and severely impacted the value.

However, woodwinds aren't stringed instruments and for a violin, that big hollow part is a significant source of sound. Yes, I've heard violins without the body. They're very quiet.
 
pete said:
In response to TTT, I think if you stripped a Stradivarius and restained it -- even if you were VERY good, someone will tell you that you have seriously impacted the tone of the instrument and severely impacted the value.
Click to expand...
Yes. It's true.

The finish is periodically touched up to protect the wood, not just for cosmetic reasons. Refinishing seldom improves a stringed instrument - unless the plates were too thick to begin with, in which case removal of the varnish, a graduation of the plates, and an application of new varnish would improve the overall appearance and tone. This is too costly to be cost effective and any instrument so poorly crafted as to be too thick wouldn't be worth the investment of time or money.
 
pete said:
In response to TTT, I think if you stripped a Stradivarius and restained it -- even if you were VERY good, someone will tell you that you have seriously impacted the tone of the instrument and severely impacted the value.
Click to expand...
Uhm, I wasn't exactly thinking of a Strad, more of a standard fiddle. Some classes of instruments are best left untouched, but you still have to protect the wood somehow.
 
tictactux said:
Uhm, I wasn't exactly thinking of a Strad, more of a standard fiddle. Some classes of instruments are best left untouched, but you still have to protect the wood somehow.
Click to expand...
Mmmm. That might be debatable.

For instance, the standard line of thinking for wooden clarinets is that you

a. Pack them in a humidity-controlled environment (use humidity strips or somethin').
b. Use bore oil on occasion.

I used to do the bore oil thing every few months to my Selmer Centered Tone clarinet when I lived in Buffalo, NY (high humidity). I couldn't really see any big difference, which may be the point.

My wife's got a 1981-ish wooden Selmer Signet clarinet. I asked her when she last used bore oil on it. She said, "What's bore oil?"

And it's been in Arizona for about 18 years (max humidity: 52%, mostly 10% or lower).

Both clarinets played OK. The Signet's still played on a weekly basis.

Now, I HAD a wooden deck around an aboveground pool and a wooden play-set out here in AZ. They were so badly dry rotted, I could easily break the wood, more-or-less just by looking at it (Chuck Norris, eat your heart out). So I disassembled 'em.

I also don't know how much use/abuse would be required to get an instrument into a condition where it needs to be refinished. If I assume that there are lots of Strads in good shape and they were made in the 17th/early 18th century ....

Finally, why I mentioned the Strad is because they're REALLY expensive. Bassoons aren't cheap: $6K for a student model? That might be a good reason to want to refinish one. If it doesn't hurt tone, intonation and value, that is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom