Resonators

Ed

Ed

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When it comes to resonators I am a bit of purist and prefer whatever was OEM in the horn. On my Mark VI that means a horn filled with original resonators. On my Keilwerth alto that means a horn with metal domes. On my vintage Buescher's it means snap in's or a metal resonator that mimics them.

The one resonator style I can't warm up to is the Noyek. Every horn I've played that has had them sounds harsh. There's no doubt there are players who like them. But as a player who is after a tone that has little if no edge to it they just don't work for me. I think that what I hear as unnecessarily bright and harsh others hear as edgy and full of overtones. That's the beauty of playing. One person's bright is another's dark.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
When it comes to resonators I am a bit of purist and prefer whatever was OEM in the horn.
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Word.

I've mentioned elsewhere that people that design instruments spend a lot of time, effort and money to get the design just right. You tinkering with it may make you happy for awhile -- but you might find that, oh, that Eb is now a little flat or the sound is a little harsh when you start hittin' that altissimo or some such.

I wonder if we could poll people that have added resos and see how long they kept that setup before going to something else.
 
I dunno . . . I kinda think it doesn't matter that much unless there are NO resonators installed. I have two vintage altos with Noyeks (a '32 Cigar Cutter and a Buescher 400 TH&C). I hear no edge or harshness in those horns - both are sweet.

I have another Buescher alto (Big B) with snap-ins - and while it sounds different than the TH&C, one isn't better than the other - just different. And my VI alto has what appears to be the original brown plastic (or are they nylon?) resonators, just like my Ref 54 alto.

All are different, all are good, none of the differences can be attributed to the resos, at least in my opinion. DAVE
 
I used Noyek resos on my Mark VI tenor for a few years. I was playing in a rock band and in a latin salsa band. Projection, brightness, edge, overtones, etc. etc. were what I wanted/needed.

When I moved back to the left coast I started using my tenor for jazz, and the sound no longer worked for me. After much thought and some discussion with my tech, I opted not for the original plastic domed resos when I had an overhaul done, but rather the newer metal style that Selmer uses in their newer horns. My tech said that I would love them, and if I didn't he would redo the work, and give me the plastic ones.

He was right. I love the sound of my Mark VI with the newer style Selmer resos. He did not have to redo it. But I do find that when I use the horn in the blues band, I miss my Noyeks again...Can't win.... :geek:
 
on my VII alto I experimented a few years ago .. must have been about 6+ yrs now.
But I repadded the entire instrument with domed plastic. sounded great. then changed out the top pads with domed metal. Got a tinny, edgy sound to it. then back to plastic domed. nice sweeter sound again. Enough of an experiment for me.

not sure what you hear 20 feet away, but for me the player it was different.
 
SteveSklar said:
....not sure what you hear 20 feet away, but for me the player it was different.
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Isn't that the truth! I think think as players we tend to obsess about reeds, horns, ligs, m/p's, resos, etc. etc. But in the end, other than to another experienced horn player, we all sound the same anyway. Half the time the audience doesn't know the difference between a tenor and a soprano, let alone the subtle nuances of tonal varieties in a particular voice of saxophone. :ugeek:
 
Metal clarinet = soprano sax. Let's ask Gandalfe how often he's had people ask him about that!
 
I have a 24 bit sound card and some pretty cool recording software and I have done a number of tests comparing mouthpieces and reeds and horns. The results were surprising. I always thought my Buescher 400 TH&C was a brighter horn than my Mark VI. The opposite was true when recorded. Different reeds made very little difference in tone. I could still change the horn a lot with the mouthpiece. I had two mark VI necks (don't ask) and the neck that I was sure played world's better couldn't be distinguished from the other one.

Going back to reeds. I played a whole season on Fibracells and our Musical Director didn't know it until I told her.
 
Ed - I've seen alot of those soundbits on the web asking for suggestions etc. Alot of people hear no difference.

I don't bother .. i know my computer sound output is nothing so it would all sound somewhat like a saxophone to me. I need to get a digital reader of some type of my stereo - all Sony ES and older stuff .. good headphones Blaupaunkt sp? .. back when i knew what it was.

(something for another thread) btw does MP3 v WAV files make a difference. I assume the method and setup of records definitely does. as does the microphone .... and all else

I've had some plenty good ear training in the past and still learn stuff. It takes alot of listening so intently on very specific nuances (one difference between a pro symphony player and us normal folk) that few are able to hear differences or understand. When I studied Grover I spent about a year listening over and over and over to new nuances of his playing that i would hear after just sitting there and listening, over and over and over again (not every day but alot of listening. I think i wore out the CDs)
 
I have an EMU-1820M. Pretty nice stuff. I use Cubase and have some decent microphones. It took me a while to get used to the virtual interface. I have some really nice Sony monitor headphones. It's still not as warm as analogue though.
 
I don't know how this got down into the world of headphones and equipment, but if you want to spend a large portion of your life looking into headphones, check out http://www.head-fi.org and http://www.headcase.org

I have a pair of 200$ limited edition headphones which go for about 350$ used now (haven't been sold in over 2 years). I have a headphone amp in the mail on its way to me, with a custom 3ft mini->RCA cable.

MP3 vs Wav/FLAC/ALAC (apple's lossless encoder) makes a HUGE difference.

Someone start a thread on this... you think I've talked a lot in my other two...

Resonators... I'm an OEM fan myself. I bought my 6M-VIII with a fresh overhaul from USA Horn with OEM-style Resopads. I found out a few weeks ago they were shellac'd in instead of the OEM style fitment, but I'll have to just trust the techs on this one. Its in the shop now getting a few pads replaced (and most of the rest of an "overhaul", with just the pads/corks/felts that need to be replaced, replaced). I argued with my tech for a little while, as I wanted to keep it as original as possible (at least until I do a full repad). He doesn't like the reso-pads at all, but instead uses a high quality kid pad with flat metal resonators. I'm giving him a 300$ trial run... we'll see if I can tell a difference.

**BRENT**
 
Ed Svoboda said:
I have a 24 bit sound card and some pretty cool recording software and I have done a number of tests comparing mouthpieces and reeds and horns. The results were surprising. I always thought my Buescher 400 TH&C was a brighter horn than my Mark VI. The opposite was true when recorded. Different reeds made very little difference in tone. I could still change the horn a lot with the mouthpiece. I had two mark VI necks (don't ask) and the neck that I was sure played world's better couldn't be distinguished from the other one.
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Regarding the two necks that sounded identical, you may still be correct that one plays better than the other. However things like response and feel are impossible to capture while recording. I have taken a considerable amount of time figuring out the setup of my horns. When I'm playing by myself they're exactly what I want them to be. This also applies when I record my horns. However, when you add other instruments to the recording you may find that your sound is no longer what you want. Whenever I come across this problem, I may tweak the horns EQ or scroll through various reverbs and delays until I find what suits the music. So my final sound ends up having little to do with things such as reeds and resonators and more to do with a computer. Please note that I typically work with rock bands. I'd imagine that I'd tweak my tone considerably less if I were working with a jazz quartet.

When I am playing by myself and hear everything that my horn is doing exclusively, I prefer what the Noyeks offer. My SA80 has had them for about 6 months now, and I plan on installing them to my New Wonder during its next overhaul. My ideal tonal concept is bright and edgy without being thin, so the Noyeks work for me.
 
Very good point about response. I remember that they both responded well but slightly differently. The main thing was that the neck angle was different between the two of them. My horn is a 170k and the second neck was 103k. I ended up keeping my 170k neck and selling the 103k.

Having the home studio set up has been a real eye opener and a number of personal myths have been proven wrong.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
Having the home studio set up has been a real eye opener and a number of personal myths have been proven wrong.
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Tell me about it. I've recently discovered that I'm NOT as good as I thought. The recorder never lies. :emoji_smile:
 
SuperAction80 said:
Tell me about it. I've recently discovered that I'm NOT as good as I thought. The recorder never lies. :emoji_smile:
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Everyone should be forced to listen to themselves regularly; you gain humility that way. I rarely post recordings of me unless I have a decent recorder and still I'm not happy. Maybe if I was Merlin or Terry Stibal... But I'm not.
 
Gandalfe said:
SuperAction80 said:
Tell me about it. I've recently discovered that I'm NOT as good as I thought. The recorder never lies. :emoji_smile:
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Everyone should be forced to listen to themselves regularly; you gain humility that way. I rarely post recordings of me unless I have a decent recorder and still I'm not happy. Maybe if I was Merlin or Terry Stibal... But I'm not.
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Well a lot of it will have to do with understanding the recording equipment too. In many ways sound engineering is actually just as difficult as being a musician. Placement of the mics, gain levels, and EQ are all things that have to be taken into account. If your gain is slightly too high, you will clip and distort your tone. I like to record my horn with the EQ being flat which is the truest representation of your sound. Keep in mind that your recording will sound "dry" as the microphones will not pick up the room ambience. I'll adjust the EQ and effects later on in order to add presence to the recording.
 
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