Saxophone Keywork Evolution Webpage Idea

pete

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I've been thinking about this.

One of the main "arguments" that people make about, "You can use vintage horns without a problem!" is that saxophone keywork hasn't changed that much since A. Sax slapped the C bass together in 1843.

Ummm. Sorta.

I know that, for instance, the original production saxophone had a keyed range of low B to altissimo Eb. This was extended to low A on a couple of models (probably by 1861/1866) -- but some of the alternate keywork we're used to, such as a chromatic F#, wasn't standard until the late 1960s (Martin Committee/Magna baris randomly did not have chromatic F#s; lotsa German makes didn't have them).

So, I think I could have fun with this. I'll definitely mention the following ....

* The company that patented the fork Eb, etc, around 1888
* Pre-single-octave key baritones
* The Loomis horns
* The two Evette-Schaeffer keywork designs
* The interesting keywork designs of the Buffet-Powell
* Interesting keywork found on the Kohlert "VKS" baris
* Leblanc's Rationale, Semi-Rationale and System horns
* Grafton's rather unique approach to keywork
* Conn-O-Sax and extending the range from low A to altissimo G
* The Selmer Harmonic mechanism
* The SBA low A baritone and low A baris
* The Mark VI low A alto
* The Selmer Modele 28 (altissimo D# trill key and all that)
* The Hohner President and Pierret's approach to altissimo keywork
* Low G basses
* The Eppelsheim designs
* The Rampone and Cazzani Dell Paine horn
* Ergonomics

Anything I've forgotten? I've only done some design work for this in my head.
 
You've left out the original downward extension from B to Bb, which preceded the low A option by a goodly number of years.

I still encounter denial when I point out that bass clarinets only went to low E for quite a few years, and that the need to cover A bass clarinet parts (rather than some perverse concert band-related reason) forced the addition of the low Eb key in the early 1900's. Then, when some self-professed clarinet experet really gets up and in my face and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, I bring my two low E bass clarinets (both of "vintage" stock) to the next rehearsal. When they see the Buffet logo, it tends to shut them down pretty quick.

(I've even gotten the "There have never been any A bass clarinets" line a couple of times. I attribute this to a 1990's era orchestration book that plainly stated that "There was no evidence that such an instrument ever had existed". I used to have my grandfather's Albert system bass in A, but that went away a long time ago, and I don't seen enough of a need to buy a Selmer one (for something around $11,000) to prove them wrong.)

By the way, I'm not a fan of the fork Eb, at least as far as the Conn and Leblanc implementations of same. Originally I had it made operative on my Conn alto, but I later came around to my technician's point of view and had it corked/springed shut. On Leblanc bass clarinets, I always found it to be relatively useless (compared to the non-forked fingering).
 
I *think* Orsi or Amati still makes an A bass clarinet. Hang on.

Nope. Check that. I must have misread them. Or I saw it referenced, elsewhere.

I've definitely *seen* basses to low E, tho.

Regarding the low B/Bb, I should also talk about the way the low B switched positions on the baritone. Not to mention the interesting curved saxophones, like the Sax C bass and Pelisson (allegedly) F bari.

So far, just an idea ....
 
pete said:
Regarding the low B/Bb, I should also talk about the way the low B switched positions on the baritone. Not to mention the interesting curved saxophones, like the Sax C bass and Pelisson (allegedly) F bari.
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The low B on the inside of the bell, common on the first baritone saxes, may have been in the same place on the first altos and tenors, according to early drawings.

Robert Howe has hypothesized that the original (prototype) bass saxophone as shown in the patent diagram was in Bb, not C. I'm not convinced of that, since so many early price lists state "Saxophone in UT" or key of C for the bass sax. It was shaped like an ophicleide, with an upright bell like a bassoon. I hope one turns up some day.

Later, the 1850 catalog shows a Bb bass in conventional shape. The tall upper bow, quite like a Conn or Buescher, looks even taller because of the short bell (only goes down to B natural). It's really a beautiful instrument, completely different from the one in the American Museum or the one in Europe, both from about 1876 as I remember.

By the way, these early horns play very well. They are not very loud but the tone is rich and interesting. The recording on my myspace site of my 1861 baritone was made at a rehearsal on a walkman and really doesn't do the instrument justice.

My Myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis
 
... I forgot the Buescher 400 design, single-sided bell keys and split-bell keys.

If I ever get the time to do this, it'll be an interesting webpage.
 
I think he does ...

Of course, there are also the considerations of the straight vs. curved horns. Underslung vs. normal octave keys, too.
 
I owned the straight JK and sold it to him. I really liked that horn but then I inherited my grand fathers Mark VI and I really didn't need the horn. It pained me to part with it. I know he moved it on to another person as well. The straight is difficult for the player to hear when playing in an ensemble but the audience hears the horn just as well as a tradition curved one.

No real interesting keywork tricks on it beyond the minor changes needed because of it being a straight.
 
How about the Selmer Modele 22 alto that had no side Bb key or tone hole? It had the side Bb lever, but it somehow wrapped around and activated the front A key to make Bb. My friend Ron Bass, who techs at Sam Ash Cherry Hill, showed me one that he was working on. Made me wonder.....why?

If it ain't broke.......

Maybe someone can give me insight as to why they did that.
 
... I think that's actually a horn like the Martin Handcraft Troubador, where the side chromatic C can be the Bb, depending on the fingering :).

Good idea.
 
The Selmer Modele 22 side Bb key is one of the most interesting keys on any saxophone. It is unique as far as I know.

The first saxophones made by Adolphe sax in the middle 1800s had no side Bb tone hole. The side Bb key was attached to what we now call the A key, and it was closed when the side Bb was not depressed. That means there was a closed key (the side Bb key) in the middle of the left hand keys. Today, all the left hand stack is open at rest (no fingers down).

In the 1800s, the A key, by modern terminology, was attached to what we now call the bis Bb key, (or the stack Bb key).

The Selmer Modele 22 with no side Bb tone hole was a "throwback", that is, it brought back some of the old Adolphe Sax keywork ideas. The side Bb key was a one piece key that opened a tone hole in the left hand stack to produce Bb. But the side Bb key was OPEN at rest, and the side Bb touchpiece was in the DOWN (depressed) position. When left hand second finger A was closed, the side Bb lever would rise, and when the side Bb lever was depressed once more with the A key closed, the stack Bb tonehole would be opened, producing Bb.

What is even more interesting is, Selmer made Modele 22 saxophones both with and without side Bb toneholes, and the ones without side Bb toneholes are not necessarily older than the ones with side Bb toneholes. To make everything even more complicated, Adolphe Edouard Sax, son of the inventor of the saxophone, was making saxophones with side Bb toneholes (just like modern horns) before he sold the factory to Selmer.

In my opinion, saxophones with or without the side Bb toneholes sound good, with good intonation and even timbre, whether made my Adolphe Sax (the inventor) or his son, or by Selmer. Selmer's no-side-Bb-tonehole Modele 22s had a problematic double spring system for the side Bb, similar to the way modern G# keys work. I think that's why they disappeared.
 
Wow. So that strange side Bb mechanism was a throwback to an Adolphe Sax feature that was pretty much antiquated by 1922. Very interesting. So this makes me think of another keywork throwback situation, the Selmer Jimmy Dorsey model alto. I guess that a lot of oldheads didn't want to move ahead to the new fangled Balanced Action, so Selmer threw the old time spatula and low B and Bb keywork on a Balanced body, and Jimmy and a few other oldtimers are happy. :geezer2:

Great info, Groovekiller! Gives me something to think about. Thanks.

And thanks Pete, I'll look for that Martin Troubador.

Hopefully no modern manufacturer is out there looking to bring back the fork Eb key!
 
If someone could figure out how to get it to regulate (the forked e flat) reasonably well then I'd love to have it on a horn.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
If someone could figure out how to get it to regulate (the forked e flat) reasonably well then I'd love to have it on a horn.
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The fork Eb also was used in several different styles: the one on the Modele 28 isn't the same as on the Handcraft Standard and they're not the same as the one on the Buffet Dynaction.

I've seen Martin baris without chromatic F# keys.

Looks like this'd be a very valid idea for a website.
 
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