So I played an SX90r today...

[MexicanDragon]

A bandmate entrusted me with his black nickel SX90r (114xxx) alto on thursday to sell for him. I took it out tonight to practice on (short practice, just about a 45 minute window tonight, so I just wanted to run through basics to get a feel for the horn).

I dig it.

Someone here told me if I played a lot of modern horns, I'd probably go for a JK. He may be right. Not unlike my 6M-VIII, the keywork just fell under my fingers, except for the the front F spatula... I'm a pearl guy. I noticed the horn keywork was faster for me than my Conn. Granted, I'm relearning the Conn after a major playing condition service (where the tech set the spring tension a bit heavier), but this horn just felt good to me. I didn't bring out my Conn (no sax stand, wanted to play this one by itself since I just had a short time), but it seemed to have a little more resistance to it than the Conn. Definately different from the hummingbird I played in december. I think it was just a magical beast, but the Selmer keywork isn't as natural to me (except for a Mk VII tenor I held once at a statewide audition in HS). I must have Hemke hands...

At this point, I think I still prefer the sound of my Conn, but I'm thinking that if I just had this horn (and it wasn't in the horn for over a month, like my 6M was), I could be happy with it.

The owner, however, fell in love with his 82z. I don't think he's touched this horn since the day he brought the Yamaha home. Its a shame, really.

I'm not going to be selling my horn to buy this one, but I definately wouldn't mind owning it.

I just had a college flashback where a buddy of mine (music major, one of the top HS players in the state in 99 (we met at another audition)) played my 6M-VIII. One of the other sax majors heard him playing it in a hall and had to come see what it was. He played a brand new Selmer SA80 Serie II. He didn't care for it. Now he plays nothing but JKs and has a Shadow alto.

Just some random thoughts...

**BRENT**

 

[Ed]

I love the SX90 tenors. The altos are interesting as well but for some reason of modern horns I really dig the 82Z. I have a older JK stencil that has an amazing dark tone and is a dream to play. The 114k is probably still far enough back that the horn should have had a nice darkness and complexity to it that I think the shadows lack.

 

[MexicanDragon]

I love the SX90 tenors. The altos are interesting as well but for some reason of modern horns I really dig the 82Z. I have a older JK stencil that has an amazing dark tone and is a dream to play. The 114k is probably still far enough back that the horn should have had a nice darkness and complexity to it that I think the shadows lack.

Aren't you the guy who thinks the Mk VI is the end all be all horn of all time, forever and ever?

The 82z seems to have a VERY similar feel of the VI, which would make sense for you if the above statement holds true. Selmer ergos just haven't ever clicked with me, though I have been impressed by their sound/how they've blown (I've only played a few, and they were all hand selected amazing examples, except for one).

I DID have a chance to buy a low A MkVI alto with poor laquer (about 50-60%), but it would have needed a bit of work done to it (it had been marched/played by a HS guy for 5 years (taken care of, but still... it'd been marched for 5 years). I could have snagged it for 1800$. I wish I would have done it as an investment, but it just didn't feel right to me. The HS kid's parents bought it at a yard sale... 150$. Yes, I know. It made me sick too!

I really wish I had a decent way of recording myself on these two horns to compare. Since I had been working on a deal with a guy that fell through (he just got a killer deal on a ref 54 from a guy in an army band in tokyo last night), I'll take 'em both to my lesson on friday and see what my teacher thinks.

I'll probably take it for another spin later on tonight. Maybe I can talk this guy into letting me blow his 82z for a few minutes again... its been a while since I've played it.

**BRENT**

 

[Ed]

Aren't you the guy who thinks the Mk VI is the end all be all horn of all time, forever and ever?

Yep that's me. Like I said I own a killer 87k alto but I am also the first to say that it has many "flaws". It's flat in the bell keys. Probably a little sharp in the palm keys. Uneven up and down the stack compared to any modern horns. In spite of all of that I can't help but love the horn it's just really great.

With that said, I'm also the guy who has sung the praises of the 82Z altos. If I had to buy a brand new horn it's probably where I would end up. It just flips my switch. Your mileage may vary. etc . . .

I have always said that if you bond with a horn you should play it to death.

 

[MexicanDragon]

Yep that's me. Like I said I own a killer 87k alto but I am also the first to say that it has many "flaws". It's flat in the bell keys. Probably a little sharp in the palm keys. Uneven up and down the stack compared to any modern horns. In spite of all of that I can't help but love the horn it's just really great.

With that said, I'm also the guy who has sung the praises of the 82Z altos. If I had to buy a brand new horn it's probably where I would end up. It just flips my switch. Your mileage may vary. etc . . .

I have always said that if you bond with a horn you should play it to death.

Oh... I don't doubt your 87k isn't killer, or flawed. If you play a horn for a long time, you'll know it really well, bond with it, and its the reason its "your" horn and not just another "VI".

I saw your 82z thread as well. I know its an endgame horn for the guy who had this sx90r, and it seems to be the horn Phil Woods will carry with him for the rest of his days... just isn't really my thing. My mileage varied...

I don't really have a bond with this JK... but I can see how some people can. Especially people who dig the Conn thing but want some modern conveniences. I hope I can play this against my teacher's Hummingbird on friday. I don't get many chances to try out top modern horns side biy side... this could be one of those few chances. I live in a small town in TN. Even the music stores around here carry maybe 1 used pro horn, and a few student models (mostly Bundy IIs) at any given time... if that. I DID find a shop called "The Opera House" which deals with used cds, instruments, collectables, and new/used guitars/gear. They happen to have the best sax selection I've found (with their two best horns being a used Antigua for 650$ (alto) and an old Pan American that looks to be in decent condition for 550$ (alto as well). The owner is a guitar/sax player who has a VI tenor but gigs with a YTS-61.

I'm thinking that a lot of players these days are going to be drawn to Selmer/Yani/Yamaha side of things, as it seems most of the student horns have keywork related to these brands (dating back to VI and variants). If the JK/Conn keyboard feels as odd to them as the Selmer/Yamaha keyboard does to me, I can see why people (like my buddy) just can't really get into them.

I have a know with a NOS Super 20 Silversonic (bought in 77, closeted in 78, he should have just gotten it out from an overhaul recently), a YAS-875EX, a 6M that's under 100 off of my serial number, and he's just 30 miles away. I think we're going to get together soon to pass around some horns and see what's up. Maybe I'll be swayed by the 875EX, or seduced by the Sexy Silversonic.

Or maybe my 6 is like your VI... not perfect (by modern standards), but killer.

**BRENT**

 

[Ed]

I've loved the tone and general playing on the 6M's I have played through the years. They keyboard left me less than enthused but I think it comes down to playing mostly Selmer and Buescher horns. After a while your hands just fall in a certain way but you can adapt.

If you weren't in Tennessee I would say let's get together and have some fun playing horns.

Saxhound and I got together a couple of years ago and I had the chance to try his VI alto (a later VI) and I was surprised at how much brighter it was than mine.

I still contend 6M's are really under appreciated.

 

[MexicanDragon]

I still contend 6M's are really under appreciated.

I think in many instances they are. Classical wise... I think there are just too many intonation quirks for a lot of players to deal with.

Maybe I'll make it up to Chicago one day... we could get together then.

About playing a later VI... I wonder if this could have anything to do with another thread here about horns "breaking in" or changing over time. I wonder if those 70's VIs are going to sound like 50's and 60's horns in the next 10-20 years. Very possible it won't happen... but who knows.

Anyways, I'm kinda hoping the 6M-VIII prices hit VI territory so I can sell mine and buy a DoDo Collector's Edition Alto with dark laquer and black pearl key touches. So far a Hummingbird CE is the only horn to make me want to put my 6M-VIII down... even with the silly Selmer keyboard.

**BRENT**

 

[pete]

Someone here told me if I played a lot of modern horns, I'd probably go for a JK. He may be right.

VINDICATION.

I'm not ALWAYS right, but I like to celebrate when I am .

 

[MexicanDragon]

Someone here told me if I played a lot of modern horns, I'd probably go for a JK. He may be right.

VINDICATION.

I'm not ALWAYS right, but I like to celebrate when I am .

Hehe...

So far, as much as I like the horn though... I'm not selling my 6M-VIII for it. This horn IS close to the "right" vintage for these, it seems. Still going to hold off a bit on that "New Horn" GAS...

Won't stop me from playing it a little though...

**BRENT**

 

[pete]

Well, considering the horns I currently have are almost 30 years old, I really can't comment on buying something new. Yet. However, I do tend to wonder how much I'd have to adjust on, say, my wife's Selmer Omega as opposed to a brand new Yamaha 82Z, much less try to compare how much better an 82Z is to justify trading in the Omega for it.

It's an interesting thing to think about. However, it's also an academic point: I'm not going to be buying her an 82Z unless I win the lottery .

 

[pete]

BTB, the Conn prices are about as high as they're going to get, I think. They have been going up a bit, but the economy might give that a pretty hard shot in the very near future. If you're gonna sell, particularly on eBay, it probably should be soon. And you might want to wait a bit and see how low the horns in the used market go.

 

[MexicanDragon]

BTB, the Conn prices are about as high as they're going to get, I think. They have been going up a bit, but the economy might give that a pretty hard shot in the very near future. If you're gonna sell, particularly on eBay, it probably should be soon. And you might want to wait a bit and see how low the horns in the used market go.

BTB? Couldn't find it on wiki, so I quit looking...

As far as prices... I think I'll hold off for the next housing boom. It was the VI for the last one... the next one is going to be the 6M. Especially nice silver plated ones with VIII necks.

Maybe I'll wait to find someone who owns a Hummingbird Collector's Edition, get them drunk, and talk them into a trade.

6M-VIII + Scotch = HCE R54? I'm fine with that.

I'm hoping the SX90r sells well, though. I just don't have the $$$ for it or I'd consider it for myself.

**BRENT**

 

[Ed]

BTB - By the by.

 

[Connical]

I usually don't resurrect an older thread, but I have a suggestion that might fit real well for you MexicanDragon.

If you like JK's and vintage Conn's, you should seriously consider a Conn 108M (DJH modified, Keilwerth stencil). Keilwerth made these for Conn from 1980 to 1985. They have the Conn Naked lady engraving just like the 6m, and are fairly modern Keilwerth horns as well. Best of both worlds. I used to own one, and I'm still kicking myself for letting it go. It was one of the best alto's I've ever played. I have since bought 2 Bundy Special alto's in a feeble attempt to find that same magic, but the Bundy Keilwerth's (while quite good) fall short. Many believe that this time period was some of the best years for Keilwerth. Based on what I had, I would have to agree. shmuelyosef over at SOTW, has really spent a lot of time comparing the DJH version against other JK's, and JK stencils like the Couf Superba. He's of a mind that the DJH made versions are some of the best also.

Something for you to consider !