Some help with C-Melody repair please?

Springs and things

So I have all the pads out. Dental tools are amazingly useful here, And I luckily had the foresight to order a set a few weeks back for @$3 on Amazon.

As far as the flat springs go, there seem to be two different sizes on the Bruno. Five @30mm, and one 36mm. It's tough to know for certain as most of the flats are rusted and/or broken. I am finding 36mm and 32mm, but no 30mm. Are the 30mm unique to this era of sax, or are they 32mm that have been "altered" by time? lol

I am assuming the 32mm springs can be made to fit. As far as the thickness goes, is it specific to the function of the particular key, or more about user preference? There is no way to measure the springs as they are, only one of them was not completely rusted.

I am thinking of buying the needle springs kit which you make each spring yourself. That seems to be the best way in this case. I can't find any specific spring kits for these two C mels.

Is there a specific reason that the needle springs need to be so pointed? Or is it just the taper that is necessary? It seems like after shaping them, the point could be blunted. Any problems with this?
 
New game plan

Just got the Pan American in, it is in much better shape and mainly need some cleanup, a repad and of coarse adjustment. Most of the springs have already been changed recently, and the springs that haven't are in good shape.

Also, someone did some custom key work to the upper palm keys. Much more comfortable than the factory setup on the Bruno. Fits my hand much better. Rollers on the pinky keys are in perfect shape.

I think I'll repad this one and attempt to get it adjusted and tuned. Take it to a shop if necessary.

The Bruno is deffinately getting stripped down to the posts and completely gone through now. Too much wrong with it to patch up all the little problems.
 
Springs used to be made from sewing needles, hence the point. The taper affects the way the spring works. Probably better to stick to tapered springs. from blued steel.

Size - get a selection. Try the springs in the hole the old spring was in, pick the closest fit. so that the point is just past the hook on the key when the spring is snug in it's hole. Cut off the excess from the fat end and then flatten the flat end with a hammer and anvil. Do it carefully as the spring may break up. You may need to heat the fat end to cherry red and quench to remove the temper to do this, but only the very end. Then when you put the spring in the sax, turn it to engage in the slot left by the old spring and press in firmly with spring pliers.

The modern stainless wire will probably give a very dead feeling key.
 
kevgermany said:
Springs used to be made from sewing needles, hence the point. The taper affects the way the spring works. Probably better to stick to tapered springs. from blued steel.

Size - get a selection. Try the springs in the hole the old spring was in, pick the closest fit. so that the point is just past the hook on the key when the spring is snug in it's hole. Cut off the excess from the fat end and then flatten the flat end with a hammer and anvil. Do it carefully as the spring may break up. You may need to heat the fat end to cherry red and quench to remove the temper to do this, but only the very end. Then when you put the spring in the sax, turn it to engage in the slot left by the old spring and press in firmly with spring pliers.

The modern stainless wire will probably give a very dead feeling key.
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Cool. POINT taken. Man, I kinda regret that pun. But I had to.

Fortunately, the Pan Am springs are in great shape. I can find none that need to be replaced. I have about half the pads in, just need to finish that then level them.

I have to say, this is a lot of fun. I haven't ever had a guitar project this fun. I anticipate doing this on several other vintage saxes and clarinets.

Thanks again.
 
Well, you said you wanted to know...

LowThudd said:
Cool. POINT taken. Man, I kinda regret that pun. But I had to.

Fortunately, the Pan Am springs are in great shape. I can find none that need to be replaced. I have about half the pads in, just need to finish that then level them.

I have to say, this is a lot of fun. I haven't ever had a guitar project this fun. I anticipate doing this on several other vintage saxes and clarinets.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

And then I remembered someone saying "YOU WILL PUT A NEEDLE SPRING THROUGH YOUR FINGER".

THEN THERE WAS BLOOD...
IMGP0226.jpg


And the culprit...
IMGP0227.jpg
 
SteveSklar said:
Don't worry, there is a repairman secret that no one really knows. ...


They actually bite !!

So it's not your fault :)
Click to expand...

Considering This is the first bite in disassembling two saxes almost entirely, and replacing all but six pads in the Pan Am, I figure I am one up on the biting. lol
 
Got the pads all in, linkage adjusted and lubed. Everything is straight...'cept the pads still need leveling. I'll get out the solder gun later and do that. Any tips on that? Keep in mind, I used hot glue on the pads, as this is my first repad and wanted to learn the procedure more than traditional adhesive techniques. Got hung up a couple times on the key reassmbly and had to back track abit. But, considering it's my first major woodwind repad I am pretty pleased.

There is one rod on the lower body I could not get loose on either sax. So I will still need to work on that later. A key is a little slow as a result, seems to be getting better with lube and use.

I bought cheapo pads for this project(to allow for screw ups), and some sizes I needed were not in either the Tenor or Alto pad sets I bought(total cost-$13 for both sets on eBay). I had to unwrap a few pads, trim the felt and cardboard, then pull the leather back and glue it. *shrug* may not last, but I got it done.

Thanks again for the help and encouragement. Much appreciated.
 
Oh...and the bite appears to be healing fine. Apearantly the beast is not rabid. lol
 
I got the pads fairly level. I still need to hook up my leak light and see how far off I am. Also, some of the keys needed more adjustment to get all the pads to close properly on combined keys' closing. All in all, a great project. Made much easier by advice from people here. thanks
 
LowThudd said:
I got the pads fairly level. I still need to hook up my leak light and see how far off I am. Also, some of the keys needed more adjustment to get all the pads to close properly on combined keys' closing. All in all, a great project. Made much easier by advice from people here. thanks
Click to expand...

+1 Great job
 
I finally got the Bruno 99% apart today. Nearly every spring and screw was rusted or corroded to some degree or another. I still have one screw on a right hand (extension?) key, it is just coming apart with every attempt with a driver. I'll try some more heat and oil, but I think I may have to drill. Not looking forward to that. LMK if you have a better idea.
 
Have been soaking it. The problem is that particular screw head was stripped a LONG time ago. So not only is the screw stuck and rusty, but it is also only half a screw head. Looking at it further, I think I may just leave it. I think drilling it might ruin the pedestal and/or the key. It isn't in the way of anything else going out or coming in. I'll just have to be carefull with the tarnX so as not to screw up the spring. Strangely, that is about one of the only springs which is not rusted, broken or weak.
 
yes, sometimes you just have to leave one stuck screw in.
I do have screw extractors to pull out screw head stripped screws but then I have spare screws and make sure I have one that would work before I forcifully pull out a bad pivot screw
 
Sometimes tapping the post around the screw using a rawhide or plastic (delrin) hammer is effective as well. To remove stuck metal to metal parts I was taught:

Heat + Penetrating Oil + Tapping + Time = eventual removal
 
Problem is I would still need to drill and easy out, the head is nonusable. Only half of it is still there.
 
SOTSDO said:
...welcome to the wonderful world of the woodwind instrument.
Click to expand...

I'm having fun. I was getting bored with my guitar projects. And I love antique Amercana type usable things. And, I am really enjoying finally learning to play woodwinds(the best part).
 
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