I'm looking into getting a beginner grade clarinet as suggested to me for therapy reasons - I'm finding many that are for sale or offered to me say they had the corks and pads replaced 5 to 10 years ago and the instrument plays just fine - Is that possible or are they not being honest? - I don't want to buy or trade for a clarinet and then be told it needs all new pads and corks - Any comment on this would be greatly appreciated - Thanks in advance - DB
1st time buyer question?
- Thread starter Dennis Brooker
- Start date
Buying a used horn...
...is always going to be something of a crapshoot. Regardless of how careful the prior owner may have been, there are always fine tuning issues present. I have yet to purchase a soprano clarinet that did not have to be further adjusted to make it 100% prepared for my fingers and hands.
Corks are a basic integrity issue with a clarinet. If not intact and "live" (puffed up to the extent that they still provide an adequate seal), then you have been sold a bill of goods and have the choice of living with the issue or sending it back for a full refund. That said, getting a horn recorked is not an end of the world issue.
Pads are a bit more problematic. Sure, the seller may feel that the pads are adequate, but just as often (with a private sale) there are going to be defects. (A commercial dealer, in person or on line, will tend to repad a decent horn, just to be sure.) A full repad (which also implies an extensive overhaul, since new pads will need to be reseated and corks and adjustments need to be provided) is not a trifling expense, and one that (with a used horn) should either be provided if needed or clearly indicated if needed.
(An aside: there is no one less ethical than a seller who makes the claim that "I am not a musician, so I can't speak to the condition of this instrument, but..." in their ad. Generally, anyone that goes to the trouble of listing a musical instrument on eBay has a pretty good idea of what the horn is worth - the hundreds of listings for some sellers is evidence that they "know what they are doing". A honest appraisal in an ad goes a long way towards convincing me that the seller is legitimate.)
Personally, I'd rather not pay for the repad as part of the price of the horn, preferring instead to have it done to my specifications by someone whose work I know and trust. But, that's just me - I also have the keywork on all clarinets that have to touch my acidic fingers put through the silver plating process (as my hands eat nickel plate like it is candy), and have the ring heights dropped to account for my fat fingers. Your experience, like you yourself, will be unique.
Much the same could be said for the purchase of a new horn. Obviously, you don't expect moth-eaten (or mouse-eaten) pads on a new horn, and the horn is supposed to arrive from the factory in a "set up" condition. However, there will still be adjustment issues to suit the horn to your needs, and they should be provided by a retail seller. With the advent of the internet, this has changed, and the cost for such a "set up" would probably be borne by the purchaser. The price of progress...
Oh, and never (as in NEVER, NEVER) ever have all of the ooo|ooo finger position pads on a saxophone regulated so as to place them all the same height from the tone holes. The "typewriter" like level keyboard that this will provide may feel great under your fingers, but the horn's intonation will suffer as a result. Uneven and funky feeling is the rule with a saxophone.
...is always going to be something of a crapshoot. Regardless of how careful the prior owner may have been, there are always fine tuning issues present. I have yet to purchase a soprano clarinet that did not have to be further adjusted to make it 100% prepared for my fingers and hands.
Corks are a basic integrity issue with a clarinet. If not intact and "live" (puffed up to the extent that they still provide an adequate seal), then you have been sold a bill of goods and have the choice of living with the issue or sending it back for a full refund. That said, getting a horn recorked is not an end of the world issue.
Pads are a bit more problematic. Sure, the seller may feel that the pads are adequate, but just as often (with a private sale) there are going to be defects. (A commercial dealer, in person or on line, will tend to repad a decent horn, just to be sure.) A full repad (which also implies an extensive overhaul, since new pads will need to be reseated and corks and adjustments need to be provided) is not a trifling expense, and one that (with a used horn) should either be provided if needed or clearly indicated if needed.
(An aside: there is no one less ethical than a seller who makes the claim that "I am not a musician, so I can't speak to the condition of this instrument, but..." in their ad. Generally, anyone that goes to the trouble of listing a musical instrument on eBay has a pretty good idea of what the horn is worth - the hundreds of listings for some sellers is evidence that they "know what they are doing". A honest appraisal in an ad goes a long way towards convincing me that the seller is legitimate.)
Personally, I'd rather not pay for the repad as part of the price of the horn, preferring instead to have it done to my specifications by someone whose work I know and trust. But, that's just me - I also have the keywork on all clarinets that have to touch my acidic fingers put through the silver plating process (as my hands eat nickel plate like it is candy), and have the ring heights dropped to account for my fat fingers. Your experience, like you yourself, will be unique.
Much the same could be said for the purchase of a new horn. Obviously, you don't expect moth-eaten (or mouse-eaten) pads on a new horn, and the horn is supposed to arrive from the factory in a "set up" condition. However, there will still be adjustment issues to suit the horn to your needs, and they should be provided by a retail seller. With the advent of the internet, this has changed, and the cost for such a "set up" would probably be borne by the purchaser. The price of progress...
Oh, and never (as in NEVER, NEVER) ever have all of the ooo|ooo finger position pads on a saxophone regulated so as to place them all the same height from the tone holes. The "typewriter" like level keyboard that this will provide may feel great under your fingers, but the horn's intonation will suffer as a result. Uneven and funky feeling is the rule with a saxophone.
Thanks!!
SOTSDO - Thanks for the excellent input - I think I will try to trade with a music store in the nearest large city - 2 are interested in taking my tenor sax in on trade for totally refurbished and guaranteed used clarinet and both do their own service work with qualified people - Wish me luck - Best regards and Happy Holidays - Dennis Brooker
SOTSDO - Thanks for the excellent input - I think I will try to trade with a music store in the nearest large city - 2 are interested in taking my tenor sax in on trade for totally refurbished and guaranteed used clarinet and both do their own service work with qualified people - Wish me luck - Best regards and Happy Holidays - Dennis Brooker
Might be worth thinking about selling your tenor separately. Some are worth a lot of money and you're likely to get a poor price as a trade-in.
at the very least get a separate rpice for the tenor so that you can compare their offer to other similar horns up for sale. The dealers need to make a profit, but not a killing at your expense.
Kev - Good advice and I'm doing just as you said - Problem is I live in southern, Iowa in the middle of no where and I am unable to drive due to health problems so I do the best I can - I'm in no hurry so I will do my best to get the best deal I can - Thanks much for your input!! Dennis Brooker
I live about 50 miles almost straight south of Des Moines in the woods - DB
Sorry, that's a bit out of my territory. Never got to DesMoines except for the Bandmasters conventions.
Lived in Des Moines, Ottumwa, and Sigourney, which might be closer. Or not. Don't forget family and friends with kids. They will appreciate a deal more than the local music shop. Can't count the number of times I have heard, "I can't sell this, it was Uncle So- and- So' s. 
A little more advice please!
OK - I've found a barely used and not old Selmer CL301 for $100.00 - I talked to the repair person at the big music store and he said at the most a "complete" overhaul, pads, corks and adjustments would cost $240.00 - So with a total of $340.00 and knowing I'll have a fresh and properly playable instrument and with all my Goggle research this sounds like a good option for me - Can anyone commentwith their opinion good or bad - Thanks again for your help to all - DB
OK - I've found a barely used and not old Selmer CL301 for $100.00 - I talked to the repair person at the big music store and he said at the most a "complete" overhaul, pads, corks and adjustments would cost $240.00 - So with a total of $340.00 and knowing I'll have a fresh and properly playable instrument and with all my Goggle research this sounds like a good option for me - Can anyone commentwith their opinion good or bad - Thanks again for your help to all - DB
Not all big music stores are created equal. There are some excellent ones in IA and some I wouldn't even buy a reed in - well not quite that bad, but the repair depts leave something to be desired. How far would you be willing to travel to get a good tech? Quad cities? Waterloo?
Carl - I understand - I cannot drive due to the drugs I am on due to health problems - The shop I was referring to was Reimans in Des Moines, IA as their develivery person serving southern Iowa litterally drives by my home several times a month - Clarinets should not cost to much to ship if you have some specific suggestions feel free to post them or contact me at dbrooker1(AT)windstream(DOT) net - Thanks - Dennis Brooker
Carl - Thanks much for your input - I've talked with both clarinet techs at Reiman west and east and both were very nice and polite - The guy from the east store who's delivery person goes right by my house on his deliverys and pickups has not emailed and responded as he said he would several weeks ago - In not hearing from him I called the west store and got some very good info from their clarinet guy and it's not to far from where my wife works so if I do anything it's good to have some confirmation and I'll do business with the west side store should I do anything - Best regards - Dennis Brooker
Is this a good deal - HELP ASAP!!
I just got offered from Reimans music west a totally gone through, in excellent condition with nice case used Buffet B12 in a straight trade for my sax I was asking $600.00 for - I realize they are dealers and need to make some profit and am OK with that - I know one could be bought for cash cheaper but I want to move the sax and have had no cash offers in 3 months - I see that new B12's are avaiable for $595.00 + shipping but have also been told many times a brand new clarinet will need to have adjustments made, etc. - Any comments ASAP would be appreciated as they are also willing to drop off the clarinet - I also have a dealer that is unknown to me in Des Moines that wants to trade straight across several used, totally refurbished wood clarinets but I have to find some one to drive me to his shop in Des Moines which could be months before that happens - He's offered my choice of a Signet 100, Selmer Omega, Busher Aristocrate and a Noblet Paris - Thanks in advance for any comments - Dennis Brooker
I just got offered from Reimans music west a totally gone through, in excellent condition with nice case used Buffet B12 in a straight trade for my sax I was asking $600.00 for - I realize they are dealers and need to make some profit and am OK with that - I know one could be bought for cash cheaper but I want to move the sax and have had no cash offers in 3 months - I see that new B12's are avaiable for $595.00 + shipping but have also been told many times a brand new clarinet will need to have adjustments made, etc. - Any comments ASAP would be appreciated as they are also willing to drop off the clarinet - I also have a dealer that is unknown to me in Des Moines that wants to trade straight across several used, totally refurbished wood clarinets but I have to find some one to drive me to his shop in Des Moines which could be months before that happens - He's offered my choice of a Signet 100, Selmer Omega, Busher Aristocrate and a Noblet Paris - Thanks in advance for any comments - Dennis Brooker
http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-kind-of-clarinet-should-i-get.22275/ <-- Info you should look at. Do yourself a favor and just call Music Remasters and ask if they have anything available.
In a general sense, a Buffet-made B12 (i.e. stamped "Made in Paris") in average playing shape is worth about $300. A Schrieber-made B12 (i.e. stamped "Made in Germany") in average playing shape is worth in the $200 range.
I do not know what kind of sax you have or what condition it's in. I can't tell you if you've got a good or bad deal unless I knew that info.
EDIT: ... and I obviously typed slower than Carl.
In a general sense, a Buffet-made B12 (i.e. stamped "Made in Paris") in average playing shape is worth about $300. A Schrieber-made B12 (i.e. stamped "Made in Germany") in average playing shape is worth in the $200 range.
I do not know what kind of sax you have or what condition it's in. I can't tell you if you've got a good or bad deal unless I knew that info.
EDIT: ... and I obviously typed slower than Carl
.Here's the CL link to the sax I have - http://desmoines.craigslist.org/msg/3491801085.html - Haven't had any bites for over 2 months except from Riemans which will deliver the B12 to my door or aonther dealer who offered the several wood clarinets about whom I can find anyone who knows of the quality of his clarinet tech - I know the guy at Reimans west said the B12 was plastic and they valued it totally refurbished with nice case at $595.00 - Yes, I Googled and found cheaper but you don't know the quality, etc. - Feel free to comment some more - I have until Monday morning to decide about the clarinet to be delivered from Reimans for a straight across trade - Many thanks to you all again - DB
Vito saxophones are annoying because several companies made them.
If your horn is stamped "Made in Japan," it was made by Yamaha and the horn's a stencil of a Yamaha YTS-23. If it's stamped, "Made in Taiwan," it was made by Jupiter and is a stencil of whatever horn they were making back in the mid-to-late 1970s. Further, the serial number on your horn dates to 1975ish if you're using a Yamaha serial number chart -- and you say you got it in 1978, QED that you probably have a YTS-23 stencil.
Anyhow, if you're talking monetary value for a Yamaha YTS-23, one in good condition is worth about what you're asking, but you can also find a lot of closed eBay ads that are much, much less than that. If you accept the maxim that ANY sax you buy on eBay (or Craigslist) has at least $300 damage to it, you can understand why you're not getting too many views. However, in my opinion, as a person who's owned a YTS-23, it has a playability value much higher than its monetary value.
I again point out that you should call Music Remasters and ask what they have. They're warrantied horns. They're cheap. Hey, at least buy a $325 B12 from Dave at JunkDude.com. If he says the horn's in excellent condition, the horn's in excellent condition.
If your horn is stamped "Made in Japan," it was made by Yamaha and the horn's a stencil of a Yamaha YTS-23. If it's stamped, "Made in Taiwan," it was made by Jupiter and is a stencil of whatever horn they were making back in the mid-to-late 1970s. Further, the serial number on your horn dates to 1975ish if you're using a Yamaha serial number chart -- and you say you got it in 1978, QED that you probably have a YTS-23 stencil.
Anyhow, if you're talking monetary value for a Yamaha YTS-23, one in good condition is worth about what you're asking, but you can also find a lot of closed eBay ads that are much, much less than that. If you accept the maxim that ANY sax you buy on eBay (or Craigslist) has at least $300 damage to it, you can understand why you're not getting too many views. However, in my opinion, as a person who's owned a YTS-23, it has a playability value much higher than its monetary value.
I again point out that you should call Music Remasters and ask what they have. They're warrantied horns. They're cheap. Hey, at least buy a $325 B12 from Dave at JunkDude.com. If he says the horn's in excellent condition, the horn's in excellent condition.