Balance issue when Standing with a Low Eb Bass Clarinet with Neck Strap

kfrank1

I use a Neotech double hook neck strap when standing up and playing, but one thing I find is that especially with the side Ab around the break the horn wants to tip over to the right as I am playing.

So I have to stop it tipping over by pressing my index finger of the right hand agains the rails or by having the right hand down if possible.

This is with the instrument straight up and down. If I want to keep the horn balanced without doing the above, I have to angle the horn like a tenor sax to my right side so that the peg rests against my right leg.

I was just wondering whether anyone else has a similar issue, or can you play the horn straight up and down when standing with a neck strap.
 
Playing any bass clarinet while standing is problematic at best. If you don't have the strength in the right hand to both support and finger the instrument, a neck strap is going to be chancy no matter what the horn and neck angle does to you otherwise.

I have both Eb and low C horns. I prefer (when called upon to stand) to rest the peg on a stool, allowing the weight of the horn to be taken on the peg, and that way only having to keep the horn upright rather than holding it all.

I have not used a neck strap on a bass clarinet of any stripe since about 1961 or so. I find that they are too restrictive, as well as hard on the human neck with a standard bass clarinet neck (the "tenor saxophone" style neck). Using a modified neck allows you to hold the horn straight up and down in front of your body, instead of having to do the "tilt and angle" arrangement to put the mouthpiece into a more "clarinet-like" alignment.

I realize that these necks are not cheap, and that the horn that you are using may not be your own, and you would thus be reluctant to spend the money for something that is not yours.

Push comes to shove, playing a straight neck bass clarinet while standing is probably one of the worst ways to make music. I know that some play them that way on their own volition, but I wish that I could get all of them a high angled neck. Not enough money in my pockets for that, though.
 
My particular bass, a Pedler Custom, is of slightly different build than most basses. Pedler chose to keep the upper register vent on the body, and he extend the length of the upper joint to accommodate proper venting placement.

There are 2 downsides to this:
1, You can't use any standard case for the instrument. Stock or custom built are the only options.
and
2, The neck is shorter than standard issue clarinet necks. Nobody has tooling in place to make an improved angle version of it, let alone a replacement of a different length for accomodating higher pitched ensembles.

As to the posters question, I think I used my right thumb & thumb hook to hold the instrument in proper alignment. Honestly, I recall this issue, but have no real idea of what exactly I did to resolve it. I'll mess around with it next week and see if I can come up with a description of what I do.
 
I only play a low C bass clarinet, but I ended up with a harness because with a strap it's just too heavy. I also lean the instrument to the right side, after playing with it in the center for years.

What model is your bass clarinet? Some models are better for playing standing. My bass isn't the best for standing, but it's not bad. It has two strap rings, so if I wanted more secure balance I could use the lower one with the harness (which is what I do) and the top one with a neck strap in addition. If you have two rings you can consider that, or possibly even consider adding another ring to the instrument.

For a long time I've used a long peg, but after a while I decided it just feels too restricted. I've tried playing with the instrument in front of me with a strap but as I said, just too heavy, and especially a problem when playing something like low Db or C to open G (i.e. I can't use the thumb for support), but not the same problem with a low Eb clarinet. With a harness playing with the bass in front was a problem because it wanted to stick to my body, especially for some notes (the same interval was a big problem). I've tried a "belly stick". This was an adjustable (in length) "stick" with a pad in the end, that was supported against my stomach. I ended up giving that up because the thumbrest buckled.

So I settled on a harness only, and I went with Neotech after trying a few different ones.
 
I play a Selmer low Eb bass clarinet, with two strap rings. It's hard to make a quick switch to bass clarinet from clarinet or saxophone because of the double hook, so for years I didn't use a strap or peg

Sometimes I used the Eb/Ab key to get a better grip on the horn, like a flute player.

Then, quite a while ago I devised a gimmick that solves all the problems. It is two small brass snap hooks brazed to a short (3/4") brass rod. The dog leash style snap hooks face in opposite directions, and can be attached to the 2 strap rings on the clarinet.

Then I can use my single hook sax strap to hold the bass clarinet. The end of the top snap is about right for a tenor sax strap, and the end of the lower snap hook works with a bari sax strap. I don't even have to adjust the strap.
 
SOTSDO said:
I have not used a neck strap on a bass clarinet of any stripe since about 1961 or so. I find that they are too restrictive, as well as hard on the human neck with a standard bass clarinet neck (the "tenor saxophone" style neck). Using a modified neck allows you to hold the horn straight up and down in front of your body, instead of having to do the "tilt and angle" arrangement to put the mouthpiece into a more "clarinet-like" alignment.

I realize that these necks are not cheap, and that the horn that you are using may not be your own, and you would thus be reluctant to spend the money for something that is not yours.
Click to expand...
My bass is an early 70's Selmer "full boehm". I'll have to think about that. I think I read somewhere that Selmer makes a 53 degrees high angle neck.

Carl H. said:
As to the posters question, I think I used my right thumb & thumb hook to hold the instrument in proper alignment. Honestly, I recall this issue, but have no real idea of what exactly I did to resolve it. I'll mess around with it next week and see if I can come up with a description of what I do.
Click to expand...
That would be great
 
I still say that the best way to go is to stand and use a stool under the horn's peg. I have two pegs for my Model 33, the short one intended for it, and a longer one made for the Model 32 horn to low Eb. I've only used the latter once, as the stool method is both more stable and easier to adjust when it's time to sit back down again.

My adjustment to the stock neck for my horn came about long before Selmer ever thought to offer alternative necks. Instead, I got an early model neck produced by Charlie Bay, complete with tuning slide and register key on neck - one from his very early production of same.

Although adequate, the neck itself was very soft, so soft that it deformed (but not fatally so) while being removed from the horn when new and still rather puffy-corked. It was at that point that my wife suggested that I try Bay's lower section with the upper section from the stock horn neck.

The resultant hybrid ended up with even better intonation than either neck taken alone, and with an "improved" mouthpiece angle in the bargain. When I play bass, the bottom of the horn is actually slightly further away from me than is the top, the better to adjust the angle to that of a normal clarinet.

I would imagine that Charlie's newer necks (which I have seen but have not tried) might not be as amiable to this approach as the original. Nonetheless, I've used it this way for many, many years, and even had it silver-plated with the rest of the horn when I had it overhauled in the early 1990's.
 
If I had the money to explore having a custom neck made for my bass, I would most likely try other instruments out before investing the great sum needed for a custom job. I'm not saying my bass is bad, but for the money I might be able to come up with something better, or not, but I'd sure look hard.
 
Bass clarinet strap adapter

Gandalfe said:
Got a picture of this harness contraption?
Click to expand...

Here it is, on a Selmer bass clarinet. A short neck strap (tenor sax) can hook into the loop of the upper snap hook without adjusting the strap.

A baritone sax neck strap hooks into the loop of the lower snap hook without adjusting the strap.
 
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Where did you get the parts? That looks pretty nifty.

I may go to the hardware store and see if they have them.

I'm wondering how I could get it brazed and how much it would cost.
 
kfrank1, I assume you have two rings on your bass clarinet? If I understand correct the problem is the the bass clarinet is trying to fall to the (right) side.

Unless I misunderstood, it seems to me that Groovekiller made his device so he can quickly change between different instrument, when using two straps, without adjusting them.

For your problem, this device will make both rings closer to each other, which is more likley to make the problem of the bass clarinet trying to fall worse. If using two hooks and two rings, the closer they are (rings from each other, and hooks from each other), the more likely the instrument will try to fall. Of course this depends on where the conneting point is (does it try to fall even if you use just one hook in one ring, for example?).

What you probably want to do is just the opposite, use connecting points (rings) which are further from each other, but also hooks that come from different places. What will do this is a harness for the lower ring and a strap for the top ring. Like I said, this depends on where the hook is, but the principal is making the instrument more secure along its length.

Nitai
 
Claribass is right. It's two different problems. However, I've noticed that when I use the top (tenor sax) loop on my device, the bass clarinet is a little more stable. You have to push a little harder with the left thumb, but the horn feels more under control than with a two hook bass clarinet strap.

As for the parts, I got the brass snap hooks in a tack shop that specializes in horse bridles. Later I sax the same snap hooks at a large hardware chain - probably Loewe's. Any sax repairman will have brass rod to make the short connector, or he can cut up a sax key from a junk horn.

The parts must be brazed together. Regular solder is not strong enough.
 
Clarnibass, yes my bass clarinet has two rings. I did try to use a sax neck strap but the hook was too big for the ring to fit properly so it wasn't a good test.

Thanks for that info Groovekiller.
 
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