comparison soprano sax and tárogató

kymarto

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It's nice having both instruments in hand (and mouth). I got my soprano out today, and was actually amazed at how similar they sound overall. But there are differences.

I took a shot of the two instruments lined up body to body, and what was most striking was the hole positions.

The finger holes correspond to the big pearl touches on the sop. Look at how very much lower down the body the sop holes are. You can't see under the covered keys, but the holes are MUCH larger as well. Also look at how spread out the tárogató holes are compared to the sop. It is a stretch, especially with the ring keys, on the lower joint.

The small holes, high up on the body, are the major reason, I think, that the tárogató can be kind of wild intonationally. I forget the exact reasons and formulae--maybe Lance remembers--but small holes are much more prone to changing pitch with changes in blowing pressure. For instance, for the C2 short tube note, the same amount of jaw dropping will lower the sop note a bit less than a semitone, as compared to a bit more than a full tone on the tárogató. The longer tube notes are not as bad, but one has to be careful to be in the right place when moving from the lower second octave to the upper first octave...The upper second octave can be wild, which is why it is nice, when possible, to use harmonic overblown fingerings that are locked into longer tube lengths up there at the top.

Another interesting thing is the cone diameter. The top of that old Conn soprano is 7.95mm, whereas the tárogató at the same position is 10mm. That is a huge difference, and translates to a big difference in cone angle, since the lower end diameters are similar.
 
Sweeet!
Thanks for posting this, Kymarto!
I don't own a sop sax but I never had thought to truly compare the two instruments. Although I much prefer the wooden tone to the metallic resonation of a sax, the soprano's tone has always been a wild favorite of mine and is what drew me in to the tárogató itself.

With set up adjustment it's fairly easy to get a fairly accurate reproduction of the sop sax sound on a tárogató, actually I find it easier with a thicker reed on the tárogató. Of course the overtones will always be different, but I am still very pleased with the similarity.
 
I would like to add to this thread which I find very interesting. I recently won an eBay auction for an old York straight soprano with most of the keys missing. I thought it would be fun to mess around with and do some acoustic experiments. I also will soon be stripping the Taragoto that Toby sold me to begin the rebuilding process.

Once I have the sax in hand and get the taragoto stripped of all its keys I will post some pictures and some comparison measurements to add to the discussion.
 
I also will soon be stripping the Taragoto that Toby sold me to begin the rebuilding process.

Once I have the sax in hand and get the taragoto stripped of all its keys I will post some pictures and some comparison measurements to add to the discussion.

I was toying with the idea of buying an extremely cheap tárogató, just for the metal parts, and building a new instrument. I can do pretty much anything with wood. The keys...not so much. Get this: I heard of a gypsy builder who hammers out all the key work by hand out of silverware!

But I now own 1 excellent tárogató and another one that is better than average (Timis), so I have no need for this process right now.

What you got sounds like a fun project. The Timis I have, surprisingly, is made very well, from hardwood, and is cleanly machined. I did end up smoothing the bore a bit, but that was it.

George
 
I was toying with the idea of buying an extremely cheap tárogató, just for the metal parts, and building a new instrument. I can do pretty much anything with wood.

George

If you don't mind, I may be asking for suggestions and advice as I proceed to overhaul the taragoto I have which is very roughly cut (to say the least).
 
If you don't mind, I may be asking for suggestions and advice as I proceed to overhaul the taragoto I have which is very roughly cut (to say the least).

I'm by no means an expert - I just simply love combining my passion for instruments with wood working.

I bought a lathe close to a decade ago, and I'm glad I did.

If anything, I'll probably ask you questions about your progress :)

The first would be the question of a reamer of the correct taper (I think like 17:1 for a Stowasser?) - do you plan on making one for yourself? Since other instruments with that taper tend to be of non-wood nature :)

George
 
I can provide accurate measurements for a Stowasser at the the top, and at the first and second tenon, if anyone is interested. I have a set of graduated disks to measure shakuhachi diameter, so I can also provide measurements from around 10-25mm points in the bore pretty accurately.

Also for the Remenyi, if that is of interest.
 
I can provide accurate measurements for a Stowasser at the the top, and at the first and second tenon, if anyone is interested. I have a set of graduated disks to measure shakuhachi diameter, so I can also provide measurements from around 10-25mm points in the bore pretty accurately.

Also for the Remenyi, if that is of interest.

I would be interested in this if I was making my own taragot, which i won't be doing for a while. but i'm interested in what these disks look like.
 
I can provide accurate measurements for a Stowasser at the the top, and at the first and second tenon, if anyone is interested. I have a set of graduated disks to measure shakuhachi diameter, so I can also provide measurements from around 10-25mm points in the bore pretty accurately.

Also for the Remenyi, if that is of interest.

I'm certainly interested. on my my side projects right now is making an M'Pingo recorder. After that works out (primarily testing my mathematics for tonehole placement and testing tonehole diameter) I'll be working on a few things larger
 
I would be interested in this if I was making my own taragot, which i won't be doing for a while. but i'm interested in what these disks look like.

They are made of rubber with a small hole in the center, in (IIRC) .5mm steps. They are slipped over a pin on a long stick and inserted into the bore until they stop, so that the diameter at that position can be measured. A fancier tool is a gauge attached to long spring-loaded feeler arms (about 35cm long) that give a diameter readout of the tube in which they are inserted--but those have a quite limited range--designed for measuring shakuhachi bores--and quite expensive! The disks are cheap.
 
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