Does anybody know what instrument this mouthpiece goes with?

saxman1

I am new to this forum. My wife inherited some sort of vintage woodwind single-reed mouthpiece that consists of a black hard rubber or plastic mouthpiece (1 1/2 inches long by 1/2 inch in diameter) and ligature connected to a thin pipe with a cork at the end. The pipe is approx. 5/16 inch in diameter at the end and has a wide round flange just above the cork. The overall length is 3 1/2 inches. I am trying to determine exactly what it is. At the risk of heresy on this forum :emoji_astonished:, I am aware that there are single-reed mouthpieces available for traditional double reed instruments such as oboes and bassoons. Is that a possibility? It is much too small for a clarinet or soprano sax. I have scoured the web and even contacted several woodwind experts and a bagpipe specialist to no avail. There are absolutely no identifying marks or writing on this thing. If anyone knows what this is, please reply. Thanks a lot for your help, Dave

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I *think* it's for the Saxoboe. Attached is a pic of the Moennig-made horn with a double-reed, but I know that there were at least two manufacturers that made saxophone-fingered oboes and I know that at least a couple folks made single-reed mouthpieces for oboe.

CODA: It's not the single-reed mouthpiece for the Sarrusophone. I've seen many of those.

Oh. Update. Here's a gallery of pics of the Saxoboe from Helen's website. She also mentions the single-reed mouthpiece.
 

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Thanks, Pete! That's really cool. I have been a sax player in the past, but never heard of a saxoboe. Any idea if it has any value?
 
Sounds like a task for our newish "determining your instrument's value" section. Someone more skilled in navigating this site will be sure to direct you to the appropriate area.
 
Well, first you've gotta make sure it's really from a Saxoboe (or Sax-Oboe), then you can start worrying about value -- and, as Terry said, we do have a place for value ....

I knew I had pics of a Saxoboe mouthpiece, somewhere. They're on my old website. Not quite the same as what you've got, but fairly similar.

Because this interests me, I did a bit more looking into Sax-Oboe and single-reed oboe mouthpieces. First, I came across a thread about companies that made single-reed mouthpieces for oboe. The company mentioned on that thread (visit the links on that page, too) is Chedeville, which is a name that I've heard mentioned more than once in clarinet-mouthpiece circles. I also came across the name of another company that made Sax-Oboes: Kohlert. That actually makes a good deal of sense, as Kohlert had an overly-extensive line of woodwinds before WWII and was known for their double-reeds (bassoons, in particular). In addition to all that, Runyon still makes a single-reed mouthpiece for bassoons (more good stuff here).
 
Pete, I think you nailed it. The images of the saxoboe mouthpiece from your old website are very similar to what I have, just a different version, I think. The size seems about right, too. I am still waiting to hear from another expert. So far, I have heard from Jason Onks and Peter Hurd. They weren't sure what to make of it. I'm still waiting to hear back from Robert Howe. Folks in the woodwind world sure are friendly and helpful! Thanks guys!
 
Speaking of "odd" mouthpieces - I've read somewhere that there have been single reed mouthpieces for small brass instruments. I stumbled over this page, but still cannot imagine how this contraption would handle proper overblowing and all that is required for brass instrument...
Any first-hand experience with this?
 
I've also heard it the other way around, TTT: tenor sax with a brasswind mouthpiece.

I did note that in the YouTube link on the Doctor Sax webpage that you linked to that Mr. Harris isn't playing that high. It could very well be that you're limited in range when you do try the reed mouthpiece on a brasswind -- or it could be that the reed mouthpiece + the mute he's using makes it difficult. Dunno about you, but I can used to be able to only get fundamental, a third, sometimes a fifth and an octave when just playing around with a sax mouthpiece and I don't even remember what I could do with a clarinet mouthpiece, so probably not more than fundamental and octave.

In any case, Mr. Harris' playing with the reed mouthpiece sounds to me like someone playing with a brasswind mouthpiece, which is an accomplishment. I just wonder why he decided to use a reed mouthpiece.
 
saxman1 said:
Pete, I think you nailed it. The images of the saxoboe mouthpiece from your old website are very similar to what I have, just a different version, I think. The size seems about right, too. I am still waiting to hear from another expert. So far, I have heard from Jason Onks and Peter Hurd. They weren't sure what to make of it. I'm still waiting to hear back from Robert Howe. Folks in the woodwind world sure are friendly and helpful! Thanks guys!
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You're welcome.

IIRC, Peter Hurd is a big name in oboes -- not that I do a lot in searching for oboe stuff, but I've seen his name pop up many times when I've looked into other double reeds, like the Sarrusophone and Heckelphone. I don't recognize the other names.
 
I have a positive ID from Robert Howe who identified it as a single-reed mouthpiece for an oboe. My wife will be listing it as an auction on eBay tomorrow evening (actually this evening since it's already after midnight!) if anyone is interested. Thanks again to all who responded! Dave
 
CHasR said:
$10k Question is: *WHICH* Moennig developed this?? (presumably not Hans?)
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Aside: sorry; Firefox crash, so this post is a little truncated.

Anyhow, I spent some quality time on Google and found Sax-Oboes (or Oboe-Saxes) by:

* Loree (a big name in oboes)
* Kohlert
* Bettony
* Moennig (here's a really pretty one)
* ... and here's an oboe by Sax :p

... in other words, there were a bunch of folks that made these.

The engraving I saw was "Moennig Bros." On some horns, "Horst-Moennig" is stamped. I also saw someone linking to the (modern) Gebruder Monnig - Oscar Adler website in reference to the Sax-Oboe.

Helen's done more applied research into German(ic) manufacturers, so she might have some further info.
 
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Another company that made sax-oboes was Oscar Adler. They too had a single-reed mouthpiece option for saxophone doublers.
 
Oh. And to add a bit more ....

Interestingly, there are a few websites that do compare the tenora shawm to the oboe. The general comment I saw was that the shawm has a bigger bore and a bigger sound (as it says in the Wikipedia article). My opinion is that the one shown in the article I on Wikipedia I linked to looks like a Taragato that just happens to have a double-reed instead of a single reed mouthpiece. The general Wikipedia entry on shawms says that the shawm begat the hautbois, which evolved into the oboe. I also read that the Tenora, specifically, was invented about mid-19th century, by Andreu Toron.

Of course, there are a lot of horns out there categorized as shawms. I had a couple in my calendar last year.
 
pete said:
I'd then conclude that the Monnig that CHasR asked about is Gebruder. Hey, sometimes I do blunder into the correct answer!
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Actually, I was going to do some more checking on that. Common sense would say say "yes". However, the modern company spells its name with an "umlaut", so it's Mönnig, while the company that made the sax-oboe on my site was spelling its name Moennig. True, they might have just Anglicized their name, however, I'd want to check in a few German references I have, and see if any of them mention a sax-oboe by Gebr. Mönnig (the way the old Markneukirchcen company is known.)

BTW, if anyone is interested in reading the Gebrüder Mönnig saxophone history, you can check out the page I wrote on the company for my site a year or so ago. I've only ever seen altos for sale, and only less 5. IIRC, all but 1 have been in Germany.
 
Pete, Gebrüder means brothers. It's not a name. Company was founded by the father, Heinrich Wilhelm, the brothers were Fritz and Hans. But it gets a bit more complex after that, with other brothers, sons all getting involved. Good german page here, but you'll need to use google, as I haven't got time to translate it at the moment, sorry. http://www.moennig-adler.de/nav_f.htm Note that there was an american offshoot as well.


Helen, it looks from this page as if it's one and the same, just anglicised or not. Note the spelling gebrueder part way down the page.

http://english.moennig-adler.de/nav_f.htm
 
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