Flat Clarinet! WHY!?

UTEP Horn Guy

UTEP Horn Guy

Hi everyone.

I recently bought myself my own clarinet. It's a used Buffet B12. It seems to be in great condition. I changed my mouthpiece to a Clark Fobes Debut and the ligature to a Bonade inverted. For whatever reason, I find some of my notes to be flat.... really flat. Why is this?
 
UTEP Horn Guy said:
Hi everyone.

I recently bought myself my own clarinet. It's a used Buffet B12. It seems to be in great condition. I changed my mouthpiece to a Clark Fobes Debut and the ligature to a Bonade inverted. For whatever reason, I find some of my notes to be flat.... really flat. Why is this?
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Is the clarinet uniformely flat, or are some notes sticking out more than others? Which ones? And how flat is "flat"?

What reeds (brand, strength) are you using?

How long have you been playing the clarinet? Could it be you just need a bit more time until your chops are up to the job?
 
My first thought was that you have saxophone embouchure hangover. It took me a long time to develop a decent clarinet sound. A good teacher could work you through the differences very quickly. The angle of the mouthpiece to your mouth is different for starters. You need to spend some time on the instrument to develop a good feel and sound. There are lots of good books out there too for the self taught.
 
I assume that you are not playing outside all the time. It's Winter now, and any instrument would be flat outside. If so, wait until Summer. lol.

First, it would help to know what mouthpiece you played on before. Are you are saying that your clarinet was pretty in-tune before you changed to the Clark Forbes mouthpiece/Bonade ligature combination?

Perhaps the CF mouthpiece has a more pronounced baffle slope, or slightly larger internal volume, which would make the mouthpiece play a little flatter. All clarinets have a compression anti-node at the area of the reed's tip, which reacts pitch-wise to an increase or decrease in chamber volume. All other things being equal, a higher baffled mouthpiece will play sharper than a lower baffled mouthpiece.

If you have your old mouthpiece still, compare the playing frequency of each by blowing a steady note with an identical embouchure - the mouthpiece by itself.

Regardless, if your mouthipece is pushed all the way in, and you are still flat, you need a shorter barrel. Barrels can be purchased in different lengths for tuning purposes.
 
Try a fresh reed. I recently had a reed that totally messed up the intonation of anything I put it on.

I also go along with the request for info on how long you have been playing and experience level.
 
Rather than make random guesses as to what the cause might be, I would like to know specifically which notes in a two octave C scale are flat. If you are using a tuner, how many cents flat are the flat notes? Also what note are you tuning to, and what is the length of the barrel that came with the clarinet in millimeters?

With this additional information, it will help to point those of us with more playing/teaching experience in the right direction. Thanks.

John
 
If "all notes are flat" is the right formulation, please check, what frequency a' has ;-) Could be another base intonation applied?

kindly
Roman


PS: Instruments in Europe and Asia often show an a' at 442Hz or 443Hz. An American model with 440Hz produces "flat notes" for a trained European ear ;-)
 
Oh sorry. There's a long line between ear and brain - but seems to be a shorter one to the fingers ;-)

kindly
Roman
 
also what was your tuing on your previous clarinet and what brand of clarinet ?

mouthpieces are picky things ...... thus the questions on which notes are flat .. it could just be a mpc thing. but the Debut is pretty good. I may have a Debut and I have a B12 too laying around too to check your setup.
 
pete said:
... and it's an A=440 horn. A=442 would be other models :).
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Horns offered in Europe come with baffle for 442 or 443Hz (the USA made too). Your horns, selled in USA, do so with 440Hz typically;-) As I wrote: "...for a trained European ear..."
I've heard such a horn (Imported from USA) next to mine and found it flat. The original (USA) baffle was mounted. The horn was tuned a little bit lower than 440Hz and so was audible the difference clearly.
But you're right, an American horn should not be flat for an American player.-)

But he wrote, "some notes". Therefore I would assume, a technical only reason could be excluded. What's his experience skill on clarinet? There are so many (non material related) reasons possible...

kindly
Roman
 
The B12 isn't offered as A=442, as it's a standard student horn. If you go to http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments.php?mode=productsList&cid=10 and browse, you'll find that Buffet lists the available tuning standard on their clarinets under the "Specifications". If more than one tuning standard is available, it's listed.

Most clarinet makers will say something like, "Here's a different size barrel to get you to A=442" or whichever tuning standard. Just a different size barrel really doesn't make a horn A=442: to truly have a open hole instrument change the tuning standard, you have to change the proportional distances between tone holes and/or make them different sizes. That's the reason why you can't make a high pitch instrument (A=457hz) a low pitch (A=440hz) one -- or vice-versa -- with just a different size neck/barrel: you also have to use "fake" fingerings, lots of embochure control, etc. -- and you'll still probably sound out-of-tune. If it was a closed pipe instrument, like a trumpet, I'd just have to add a bit more tubing -- and several high-end trumpets have slides for Bb, C, D and Eb, even: I had a friend with one.

Now, as far as A=442 goes, I can easily use embochure control to make an A=440 instrument into an A=440 instrument because the 2hz difference really isn't much -- and I've tried this with an electronic tuner to monitor my intonation. While I haven't tried going from A=442 to A=440, I doubt it'd be any more difficult than A=440 to A=442. In other words, the different size neck/barrel may make it easier to go from A=440 to A=442 or whatever, but it's not precisely necessary if you've got a decent ear and a good embochure.
 
Great thanks Pete, I see, I have to update my brand informaions well ;-) The rest I acknowledge in common. This discussion we had more times, because some clarinets are "not straigth" tuned. Is the same problem like the 440/443Hz - could be corrected by emboucher mostly.
Therefore I asked first, if he means really "some notes" or eventually "all notes".

kindly
Roman
 
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